That's too much, man. You like you were out of your mind like rises gone too far. Yeah, you are such a nerd. Like who does that? Right. But hello, everyone. And welcome to another episode of the dodgeball podcast. I know. I probably say this every time because I mean it, of course, but I'm very excited about this particular episode as it features a very well known player from a very well known team. Got a lot to cover, so let's just get right into it. Alrighty. Well, I've got Tim with me, Tim.

I am very excited for this podcast. Evidently, a lot of other people are, so, you know, before I get all crazy into some kind of segue because I'm sure it's gonna happen. Let's just start with you introducing yourself. Who are you and who do you currently play for? I am Tim Fullerton. Play with resin brutality. That's all I've ever played for. And that should not even be a mystery. Um, so now that that's out of the way What? Let's just start from the very beginning, man. I mean, you, me, we have a history that just goes so far back um What or who got you into dodgeball?

Yeah. Um, Man, I I remember my wife telling me about long time ago. Ah, bar, country bar called in cahoots that had dodgeball on the dance floor, and I just had to check it out. You know, I play other sports, but never really got into Dodge ball, to be honest with you. Um, anyways, I went to the bar, had a few drinks, checked it out, look pretty fun. And the rest is history. I mean, that's where I started. So in cahoots, basically, it was like a hunch.

Then it wasn't You didn't know Serge or any of the other members of Rise at that point. No, I didn't know they were all on these really good teams. And I end up putting a team together. That really wasn't good. But, you know, I picked it up pretty quick and we hung in there as best we could against the other teams. Serge was on a team that was really good, and so is Jim. He was on a team that's really good. Onda. A couple other members that when we created rising brutality, were also on some of their teams.

So, yeah, I was kind of just like the newcomer. And uh huh, And it was a struggle for a little while, obviously. But, you know, I think that there was a tournament that they had heard about and, you know, I caught wind of it, So I e started really picking up dodgeball and enjoying it. So I, uh, I joined the team, and I didn't really know many people except for just a few in cahoots, and ended up actually doing really good and winning the tournament. And the funny thing is, it was like right around the time that Justin buying started playing.

Obviously, he was brand new to the sport as well. I mean, him end up being on the same team and winning that tournament. I think it was like an orange county or ocean side or something like that. It was a long time ago, but pretty funny how that worked out. It's just funny, even trying toe, because like, you think of rise, you think of Tim. I mean, you're like a just a staple, a pillar of competitive dodgeball, So trying to kind of undo that and go back through the motions.

Um, Inka hoots eso were you did you know, like Chase Mendell and, um e he's, like, the only one of the original people I could remember. Was he part of the whole cahoots things well, or was it, like, just random dodgeball players Or like, can you recall? Yeah, now chased him. That really wasn't he? He, uh he started coming to Inca who is a little bit later the way I remember it going down. It was a long time ago, man, but I'll do my best. I remember it going down like, uh, Serge and Jim and J and Anthony El Sando and a few other guys that were on rise.

They made this team called 619 Yeah, they were the ones that came to the first NBL tournament. And I ended up just showing up in, like, just watching. Mhm and I continued to play, and obviously they those guys saw that I was getting really good, so I think it was surged that approached me and just basically wanted to put a team together. And I was interested, and yeah, so from there on out, we just went with rise, brutality was the name and just picked a core group of members and just went with it.

And yeah, I mean, that's kind of how it went down from my memory. Gotcha. Eso ah, 619 kind of proceeded. Rise of brutality. Basically, Yes. Gotcha. Because, remember, you could definitely see them. And I've got pictures of 2006. Uh, d l We're 619619 was there. And then you guys also came down Teoh a tour stop in Arizona on. But I think that was when we start to realize. Like we recognize these people from from San Diego. Why, Um Why rise of brutality? Where did that name come from? Yeah, uh, most.

You know, I think there's only one guy that really knows where that name came from. And then it was Cole. I'm doomed. It's funny how he came up to us and confronted us one day like, Hey, did you guys got your name from Ah, hey, Breed song. Didn't you were We were just like, Yeah, you got us. So yeah, I don't even know if you do that or not, but I did not know that. Tell? That's how we came across that we just started sounding good. What was it?

It paints. Ah, when people think dodgeball, they're like, Oh, that's intense or oh, that's that's dangerous. So it's scary. I mean, the people that don't like dodgeball, obviously you're saying that. So you think dodgeball? You think? Brutal. Okay, I guess that works. So that that's kind of how I saw it when I thought rise of brutality. I was like, Well, dodge balls on the I guess I over thought this clearly. I was thinking like, Oh, okay, rise, brutality rise to commit a dodgeball. I guess I get it cool.

Whatever the checks out there. Really good. So they couldn't be called whatever they want. It doesn't matter. You know, uh, I had no idea it was a hate brick song. Um, I don't even listen to hate breeding. So you have tow. Forgive me on that one, But is that where you have the, like, the skulls? Or, like, the like, the tormented soul? Is that where that came from? The logo as well, or No. No, I don't think so, man. That goes pretty deep, you know, First, we we had some weird, weird, uh, like crosses and daggers and all this stuff that surge was really Indio s O. That was like how When we first started, I wasn't really for it, But I was just, you know, whatever kind of thing.

And then the next year, Jim kinda he took over the whole Him and Jay were like, Oh, yeah, I really wanna do these like Spartans on our shoulders. And, you know, I was never about any of it, but I was just like, whatever it is, what it is, it's just a shirt. And then I think it was like your four or five, Like, I had a little bit of the input. And, you know, schools kind of went with our name, obviously, and we just We just found a logo that we really liked online and just went with it just kind of tweaked it a little bit, made it worse, Pretty much Gotcha.

So, yeah, I mean, whatever the faces are, I remember I was talking surge about this the other day. I remember watching in 2007. It was some some dude named freaky. He had like that was his nickname on the back of Jersey. This is when you guys, I guess, didn't have. I don't see the professionalism established back then, but you had the you had the cross and then you had, like, the freaky whatever, whoever that person was. Eso I remember that for something because we were watching him during the last man standing and he ended up being like one of the last 23 people.

I don't even know who he lost. You remember like this big dude doing really well was like, Oh, well, good for him. He seems to know what he's doing, but for some reason that like Blue Cross Thing, that blue shirt with a cross on his left sleeve for some reason, I just, like, wrung out and I'll want they will never forget that. I definitely remember that being part of the earlier versions of Rise. Yeah, that's definitely on surge. That's on surge along with tips. You know, we, like, had a core five guys at the time, and freaky was just like, you know, we needed six guys for the tournament.

It was one of Serge, his friends, and he played it in cahoots as well. Apparently he was, you know, really, really good. But I didn't really know he waas And again at that time, it was just like, yeah, whatever. You know, we're just just wanna play Dodge ball, You know, it wasn't a big deal. Uh, so he got a jersey and geared up with us, and we went with it, and it was our first year as rise, and I think we took second. Yeah, you guys take second.

I looked it up. I think there was, like, in the lap. E think that was a year that that Alaska team, it was the the final year that Alaska had any kind of showing. I think they taken the second year, and then they definitely took the third year after you guys or before you get E. Remember, clearly, this dude on that team was he was Marley, man. He had it. He had a cannon. It was unbelievable. Like he could just hit anything with a stinger. And, you know, we this day rise.

Um, uh, Stinger Stingers was our thing, you know, we loved it. And this guy just huge just destroyed everybody. And I remember him coming back next year, I'll never forget this. He came toe and yell, and he had, like, his sweat suit on or whatever you wanna call his jumpsuit. And he had a big old headphones on and he didn't play the whole round Robin and just, like, totally treated him like he was the guy, you know what I mean? And then he came in in the bracket play and I think they lost their first two games and he went home, and it was just the funniest thing I've ever seen.

I'll never forget that. So I remember. I know you're talking about In 2005, he had, like, his arm, was in a cast the whole time because he had thrown out his arm. I guess he was that he had been like a picture or like a minor league I And so he just had, like, the Do Sheas looked to him. Also remember pegging him is like a 19 eighties villain. He had that kind of going for him. And, um, I just wonder like, Why is this guy walking around like he's You know, I would almost say bad words, but, you know, he just walking like he's hot stuff, you know, he's like, he's guy.

He's a guy. Yeah, and yet he had yet to do anything. And then 2006 rolls around and we're playing against him. Was like, Okay, I got a chance to, like, hit this guy and this guy through, like a stinger, like straight right between my eyes. And like, I barely got all the way. I was like, Holy crap, I understand now, Like I wish he had his arm broken again because that was that was just way too fast. So I got at that point, he left some wells on a lot of the guys I remember, like some guys would just, like, lay down and try and dodge it.

Just get blasted, right? The kidneys. I was like, Oh, my gosh, This guy, he's crazy. And they did a They did a really, really good job of protecting him because obviously he was the only guy. The rest of the guys on that team weren't that good. And we were just, like, really gunning for him, and it ended up kind of backfiring. You know, when you, in my opinion, when you overplay one guy, it really effects the whole game. You just gotta I just think that you just got treated like dodgeball.

His time will come kind of thing, right? Yeah. That's, uh, definitely want to try to spend all your balls on one person, because heaven forbid you miss. And now you've you've given up control that completely changes the pace of the game. Yeah, I understand. Um, definitely want to go into that kind of stuff and strategy. But before I do that, um, coming back it up a little bit when you went thio Inka hoots What? What was it about dodgeball that that kept you coming back? Like you said you hadn't played before?

Did you ever play like, in grade school? And it kind of just planted to see like Oh, yeah, I love dodgeball. Or was it other sports or what was it that kept you? I'm just because that come it didn't matter what we were doing. I just wanted to be the best. I just always wanted to win. And and I'd always played sports like football, basketball, and I just always stayed in shape. Yeah, just just competitive. That's the best way to put a minute. So no matter what we were doing.

And then if you mix a couple of drinks and they're just makes it fun, so I mean, it's a bar, so you might as well partake. Yeah, absolutely conscious. So basically, it was it was a competitive nature that they kept you coming back. Um, gotcha. And then when, um when you guys formed rise, how did how did you end up being the captain? And is it fair to say that you're the captain of rise? Yeah, I am. And I wasn't always the captain, You know, the way that we always played it.

Well, as way always just kind of took this bunch of the humbling. Like who cares? Like her team, We don't eat a captain, so on and so forth. And as the years gone on, I was just elected the captain from the guys, just like the leadership. You know, I picked up the game really well. I became the play caller. I just you know, I was always pressing for the team. I was always the guy that had the last ball. I just I just I figured the game out pretty well, and they just were like do we want you to be the captain like take on that role?

And I said, Sure, So that's kind of how that happened. And that didn't happen til man probably like him. You're six or seven, you know, like we went all those years with just no captain, just winging it. So it's funny, cause I had to get that, like, I think confirm with surges like Timothy. Captain, Right? Like I think I remember hearing that. But not that wasn't established back in the day. That was something recent, by recent. Within the last 23 years, maybe. And it's, I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but it's just one of those things were it doesn't matter who the captain is.

You guys are just one cohesive unit, regardless, and you know some teams where you take out the captain, the rest fall apart, or there's so many egos you gotta deal with. Um, you can tell who's like the leader because they're the one that's throwing their weight around the most or they throw the hardest or what have you with rise? It's and we've We've kind of talked about this, um, between games and And during some post tournament, um, you know, bar hanging out somewhat, Not what you've managed to dio, um, with rise has has always wants that evaded me when I would captain my teams.

But you you somehow eliminated the ego. You know, I kind of want to figure out a little bit more about that. Like, what was your inspiration for? For doing that? Are you modeled after other teams or other experiences? Or, you know, how did you instill discipline, remove the ego and form one cohesive unit of six players? That or on the same page constantly. How do you How do you do that? Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, I just I've always just been growing up playing team sports.

Just It's a team. It's not one guy, you know, it's a team when you know I Personally, I think that you're going to get the most out of your players honestly, if you involve them as much as you can with everything and don't have any ago and you know, rides, we do things that I can't say that there's one team that's, you know, I've tried to copy this. We just kind of just did it on our own. And, um, you know, everything that we do is a vote.

It doesn't matter what it is. I mean, I've I've even been out voted before on multiple things and just, you know, I haven't been happy about it, but it's just it's happened. It's the way the teams always operated. And so, you know, I think that's just the bottom line is I think that you're going to get the most out of the guy is if everybody feels 100% include So they've got that buy in from from the beginning, I've played many teams, even in dodgeball, just other sports, where there's one guy calling all the shots and just with a huge ego and you see guys just they don't have any respect, for They're irritated half the time.

They're rolling their eyes when he's not looking, and I mean, I hope that my team doesn't do that with me. You know, I'm not looking for that at all. I'm looking for everybody to just Everybody is as important as the next guy on the squad. And yeah, that's that's my opinion. So that kind of leads toa following question is, how do you deal with problematic players? Um, I'm not gonna name any names, but like you have had many roster changes throughout the years. Somewhere, it's like, Okay, I guess they're going with that guy somewhere.

I can't believe they let that guy go. Does it just fall back to the team consensus or at what point do you say? Okay, this person is not worth disrupting the team cohesion, so they've got to go without getting too. So this on names and stuff like that. That's that's definitely been tough with some players. I'm sure that everybody knows what players. Um, it wasn't always the easiest decision on, you know, sometimes at the end of the day, we second guess some decisions that we have made as a team.

But I think at the end of the day it just comes down the principles for us, and that's the most important thing. Like if you play within the strategy that we have made in dodgeball, then yes, they're not going anywhere. But if you're arguing it, or if you're doing things outside of the strategy or anything like that, then you know there's gonna be warning after warning after warning and things don't change, you know, we have to part ways. That's just the way it goes. And again that goes back to putting the team over a particular ego or person, regardless of how good they are or how long they've been there.

Um, that was one of the That was one of the differences between, uh, you know, evil and and rise. Um, and it's not like I'm not trying to compare the two based on skill. It's just we've both been at this for a very long time. We both captain teams from various, um, competitive natures from India, l two elite and everything in between. And one of my biggest issues was letting people go and it didn't even matter. Um, if it was like a skill based thing, it was.

Now I want to play with everybody, you know, And then I often get crap because there's so many people out there that air sporting evil jerseys from one point or another. And for me, it's like, Yeah, I mean, cool. People want to play on my team, deal with it, but at some point, you know, there's gotta be where you have to look at the well, the well being of the team, I guess. So. It's like, Yes, it's cool to include everybody. But do you want to include everybody or do you wanna win?

And is there a happy medium? And so I wonder if you've been able to find that happy medium because it would seem from the outside. All you guys care about is winning. But at the same time, I think what has kept you guys together is that you found that nice, happy medium where you know it's more than just about winning. Um, you can correct me if I'm wrong on that one. Um, of course we want to win. Um, but at the end of day again, I think its principles.

Like I said earlier, um, I that's such a tough one. It's like, Man. So Maney situations have come up in the past where, you know, we're always trying to figure out solutions to not have to make roster changes and stuff like that. But, you know, sometimes there's nowhere else to go and and at the end of the day, like I said, I wanna win and rise wants to win. But we also wanna be, you know, you know, great teammates. And we also don't wanna have, like, problems on the team and drama on the team, just egos on the team.

And I could keep listing things, you know? So at the end of the day, um, I think that we like to just build a camaraderie ourselves, keep it within our strategy practice makes perfect, keep working together as a team, and then we know that it's gonna come because, I mean, obviously, you know, I've had some of the greatest players on this team, and we've won before them when we've won after them. So I think that residue tal ity is always gonna win. Um, maybe not every tournament, but Ro is gonna be, you know, a top contender.

So we just, uh we're real big. I'm just strategy, you know, like, I would like to You don't take credit as rise, you know, being the ones that kind of came up with pressing and stuff like that, play calling, getting behind the ball and deciding what to do as a team. I mean, there's quite a bit of things. I know that a lot of teams out there don't have to do stuff like we have to do, because they just have so much raw talent on our squad way.

Just we're a little bit different. We like to just play slow as their, you know, could be sometimes a bit boring to watch. I'm sure, but at the end of the day, it works for us. So why change it, right? You found something that works for your for your players, for your team? Why? Why Deviate? Yeah, the, um So I guess another question that would be when you're in a situation where you have to pick up a new player. You know, I'm sure you would have people lining up to hop on board.

So it's not like you're scraping and I'm not trying to offend anybody. But it's not like you're scraping from like, the bottle of barrel, like you're just picking up whoever can show up like you did. Maybe back in 2007, 2000 and eight, when you're looking at the wide array of potential players. What what specifically do you look for? And does it vary based on the vacancy that's open or, you know, What? Um, I guess. What? What would you look forward, Any recruit again? That's another tough question. I personally the first thing I like to look at it is if he's a San Diego player, because I think it's one of the most important things to be able to play with a guy week in and week out.

Just continue to build that chemistry. Unfortunately, that doesn't always work as far as picking up guys that are local with you, especially when you know that there's some better talent elsewhere, all right, but I don't know, like I think, that I look for guys that aren't necessarily big egos and more of team players, because that's more important to me. So I'm looking for guys that you know, this guy catch. Can this guy throw? Is he smart with the game? Is he? You know, hothead is he got an ego issue.

I mean, you know all kinds of stuff personally, but again, it is enough to me, it's up to everybody. So way usually reach out to a couple of players and then just bring them across the board and see, you know who agrees with what player who gets the most votes and just approach it like that. Um, but we're I'd say that we're really happy with the team that we have right now. Way just did a arise training camp last weekend, and it went really well, had a lot of good bonding moments.

And yes, I think that's what it's all about. So it's about whether or not they could mesh if they are coachable. If they are willing to put them, put the team over their own egos. And if their local that doesn't, that doesn't hurt, obviously, and that's completely what we got right now. Nice. What? Um, definitely get into the training camp. But do what helps you? Because looking at Allen, for example, when you had picked him up and I'm not sure if other people felt this way. But there were two things that I thought would maybe not work for him, and that was one.

I wonder if rise can rein him in, because at that time he was still very, very much Alan, very all over the place. Very wild. Very good. Don't get me wrong, But not you wouldn't really necessarily think of him as a rise player. And by that I mean, you know, calculated, calm, collected strategic. All that good stuff, basically everything that Allen was not at that point. Sorry, Ellen, but we all know it's true. Um, so that was the one thing that you had to work around. The other one was he's in Arizona.

And so what? Um, how do you How do you work around that? Especially now, because there are lots of teams out there where you're picking, employing people from all over the place now. And so the only time that they really get to play together unless they do these training camps, um, is the actual tournament. So what if you could comment on them? What are some things that help keep that camaraderie between you know you and Chris and Alan and the rest of the team back home to make sure you guys are on the same page?

Well, it's not perfect, you know, it Zalkind of unfortunate sometimes that all we ever get to do is playing tournaments because there's just so many things that happened throughout the day that I think if we played together every week wouldn't happen. And but, you know, we're getting through it. Allen is very loyal, and he's very passionate about the sport and a rise of brutality as well. Um, he is a little while and it took some time toe work with him, But I think my personal opinion, what helped the situation with Allen is he bought into the system?

He's not. He's not arguing about our strategies. He might, you know, sometimes try and do too much, just like all of us at times. But he's bought into the system and he's all in. So, like I said, it's it's tough when you've got players that are out of town and all you got to do is play tournaments. That's why I think the training camp is pretty important. You know, I'm gonna try and push to get a few of those a year. Um, yeah. So was the training camp your idea, or was that like a collective team thing?

Or have you guys been thinking about this over time? What's the story behind that? Um, we just were working on a couple of new things, to be honest with you and more surges idea. He takes care of a lot of stuff behind the scenes with rise brutality that, you know, I don't have, You know, I don't know. I don't have Facebook. Obviously, I see stuff on the rise count, you know, photos and stuff like that. But any time anybody ever really comments or it takes care of the stuff that nobody else wants to take care of, its it's usually surge.

And so, yeah, he was the one that kind of head up with working on a couple of new things and just let's get the guys together and see if we can, you know, get some chemistry over the weekend and just have, like, a training camp and just hang out and go off some drinks afterwards and some food and just be a lot of dodgeball in. And and I thought it was great. So it wasn't just like show up, play dodgeball. Go back to your rooms wherever you're staying.

It was it was also focusing on on team bonding and just getting to know each other and having a beer together. Basically not just regiment intelligible parts. I think having some you know, dodgeball could be stressful sometimes, just especially when things aren't going their way. And so I think it's very important to have the time Thio have some laughs and hang out the guys and just have some food and beers and just, you know, have a good time. Gotcha. Was it, um, was this a closed off training camp, or did you open this up to other San Diego players or how did How did you get bodies?

I guess to To help you scrimmage or play dodgeball against again. That was searched. Um, you take care of you know, some of the team Mexico guys and then some of the team USA guys and you got you got basically six guys down to and he housed, housed all of them for the weekend toe work with us. And then I opened my house to the rest of, you know, our team. But only Chris Bell ended up staying with me. So, uh, that's kind of how that went down.

Um, did you have, like, a, like a schedule? Um, like, okay from from ours? Xto Why? We're gonna be doing this specific drill from ours, you know, or was it just a free for all? Because I I'm basing this very loosely on one of the practices that I kind of attended and don't even know if that was like a legit practices. Remember when we were leaving? It was maybe you're probably pioneer. Searches like that wasn't how we really practice. Just so you know, so you can't take notes back to Tucson or back toe Arizona?

I don't think I was just messing with me. Or if you guys have, like, actual structure practice, that is very regimented and very focused and deliberate. Sounds like something surge would have said as by him. Yeah, No, we had a schedule. We had, like, a full on tenor. It was pretty funny, but yeah, it was legit, you know? I mean, we had a walk through before the gym open. We had breakfast and hung out. We just south and then just went through the tournament or the practice the whole day Saturday and then went out afterwards and hung out like I said.

And then Sunday it was all over again. And, yeah, will there be other training camps? And if so, will they be open to other people? Or is it gonna be in by only or have you even thought that far. Uh, there'll be another. There'll be other training camps. I just haven't personally thought far enough in advance. If you know we're talking about switching group up for keeping the same group or, you know again, that's probably going to go on surge. One of the things that nobody else wants to deal with him.

It's Ah, it's funny because when I found out So Krista told me about this during Sin City. He's like, Yeah, we're because we're talking about what it was like playing on rise, how that's working out for him and, um, just kind of bantering back and forth and he's like, Yeah, we're totally ready for 2018 Rises having a training camp next weekend. I'm flying over four And if he had told me that eight years ago, five years ago, I would be like you're that's too much, man, you like you were out of your mind like rise has gone too far.

Yeah, you were such a nerd like who does that right. But it's ah. But it made sense. And like I remember when I when it first struck me, how serious you guys treated rise and that was It was It was 2000 nine because I missed 2000 and 8. 2009. You guys had the green jerseys and you had, um I think it was Ellis Sando had sent a picture. Or maybe a surge. When one of you guys sent both me and Jackie a picture of you're set up and you had everything lined up, laid out, folded and just so crisp.

And I was like, What in the like? That is a dozen Tendai looking over in my room and good luck if you confined half our stuff because you're just throwing everywhere. And I was like, Yeah, I like your your jersey. Your shorts, towels, wristband. Yeah, somebody sent that to us and we're just like that. That's that's too much, man. But then I realized maybe they got something there because, you know, some of us are playing in jeans like we gotta we gotta get a crap together if we're gonna ever get that level.

You were playing genes for a long time. I remember that. I don't know how you know that, but yeah, I used to play in jeans and a hoodie and oh, man. That's great. Oh, man, there's just you remember him, But you used to play in jeans to was pretty good, like, man. How's that? Get that load of catch with jeans on there. So tight, man, I played and I was a ringer for my little brother. He had, like, a a tournament for his work. It was like an Abercrombie and Finch Hollister nightmare of a tournament.

He invited me to go, Um and I was like, Yeah, I would love to throw balls at pretty people. Why not? And I just roll up in the morning jeans and like, a T shirt because I don't want Thio. I want to show up in my dodgeball gear and be like, OK, first of this guy's a huge nerd. Secondly, mark your older brothers, a weird guy like What's he doing? So I tried to play off all cool, and I was like, Yeah, I played in jeans before.

I I'm used to this. But as I was playing, I was like, I don't know how I did this back in the day, like never again could I ever play in jeans and just, uh, going back Thio that they the contrast between what we were doing on the evil front and what you guys were doing. You already set a standard. And so we go and find out later on that you guys have a brand guide, and then you guys have, like, all these set standards and practices, and I think that's honestly, That's kind of where I realized that maybe we should have a podcast or some way to records of these conversations because I was sitting with, uh, with you in surge and you guys would kind of just give me the low down on why you feel this is necessary, it and how it's shaped rise and how it's helped you.

You know, um, Captain Ah, very, very high performing, consistent team. And it all starts with unity. It starts with, like the uniforms, and you guys were touching on themes that I've experienced to the military, where everything is dictated to the letter like what you do, how you do it when you do it, why you do it and it's just a crazy thing to see that come from a dodgeball perspective. But then you fast forward to 2018 and you're telling me about training camps like, Yeah, that makes sense.

Why not? Yeah. I have to give all that credit of the the strict uniforms stuff to Jim. Yeah, for sure. He he's the guy that, you know, I would like to say, put the numbers on the wrist bands and the shorts first and stuff that other people weren't even thinking about doing. Like he's the one that wrote up a whole list of, you know, has to be black Knight. He's has to be, you know. Have you got your hands on that list yet? No, I haven't. Um there's a couple things I haven't got my hands on.

I got my hands on though. A Gatorade tell from from Jim And like, I don't know if you saw me, but I was holding like a sacred artifact. It's like I don't know if I want to use this like it's still rolled up. Like I don't put my feet on this. This is like this is going to my dodgeball Hall of Fame cabinet or something. I had to get like a replica of it. If you've gotten a Gator age off Cal from Jim, that means he likes you. Yeah.

After after 10 years, I'm good. Um, finally made it. Yeah, Yeah, I was like, Cool, Dude, I'm about Thio. Take this gift, throw it on the floor and start stomping on it. I don't think that's the best way to respect this president that you gave me and let me let me just like using the gym for a little bit, and then I'll feel comfortable trotting on this awesome thing you gave me. That's right. But, man, you remind me of this one time. So I was when I was deployed back in 2011.

2012 Timeframe. Uh, rise. Some of you guys wrote me a letter. Um and I don't know how that happened. I don't know if, like, maybe Jackie was behind that, but I thought that was, like, the coolest thing, and I have to dig that thing up because I still have it. But it was like a Steve Hope you're doing all right out there. Uh, can't wait for you to come back so we can play together. And just so you know, like, here is the strategy of Of Rise, we're gonna let you know because you know you're doing something great or whatever.

And as I'm reading, like, no way they're not gonna give me, like, their dirty a secret. And I think you guys, like, said What we do is like, we aim together, or it was something like the most common sense, like dodgeball thing. It was such a good trolling. It was so funny. Yeah. Step one. Uh, OK, so that's all right, Does that They hit the other person with many balls possible. Wow, that's great. Hey, guys have always been jokers about, like, you know, sharing captains. And I was like, I want to see this brand guide.

What do you mean, you can't get it? Get it, Jackie. Or somebody get it. You know, um, are you Would you ever make that? Um, I want to make make that information public, but because And I'm not trying to be a complete family to rise, but because you guys set that standard for what a competitive team looks like. Would you ever feel value sharing them with other people to help them get on their on their own feet or help them step up, so to speak? Or is that like a secret that Onley team members of rise will ever see.

Sharing what strategy? Strategy or brand notes? Brand guides, practice regiments. Basically everything that goes into making you guys rise. Yeah, I mean, to an extent, I'm pretty easy going on. Like you're gonna come talk to me and ask me questions. I'll help you out. I've always kind of felt like I've been helpful to people when they have questions. Um, yeah, Like I said, tunings down, right? I can't I can't do the reason away that we have, you know, And some of the stuff is obviously a super secretive, but obviously, but it was some intelligence can watch some film and pick up exactly what we do, but yeah, I mean, if somebody ever wants to ask, feel free. Nice.

So on that note Mm. Um, what advice would you give to aspiring players? So, people that might be don't be intimidated to come up to you, but people that may not even think that you could even do that, because remember, you know, you guys had, like, this really weird, not stigma, but like this air about you where I don't wanna talk to those guys there, Jerks. They're too busy winning, and they're not. I still goes on right, But I've I've surpassed that. I have the towel of peace so I can come in and out as I please.

I think I've even been offered a chair sometimes when you guys were pregnant, so I'm good. But most people may not be. And, um, one of the questions that I got from when I when I asked the group on Facebook was what advice would you give to aspiring Low to players and maybe Eikenberry phrase that with, um, people that want to, like, ascent another level. So let's say, um, they've got their basics down like they understand, you know, don't give up all the balls to understand, to always be paranoid.

Like what? What could they take home to improve? Um, again, I think you know the number one thing is just practicing with the team, in my opinion, um, so even if sometimes you're at practice and they're not on the same team like see, for us, it's a little difficult, because when we're in San Diego practicing, we don't we don't ever get to play together. So half the time. I'm playing against Jim and Surgeon. You know, A lot of times I got piling on my team. It's, you know, there's it's tough toe.

It's tough. Thio getting the detail exactly had to make somebody better in that aspect. I just personally try Thio at practice worked on little things like, you know, paying a guy when one's throwing at me and catching the other guy like stuff like that. Obviously, just in case I never in a situation where it's me versus four or five or six people or something like that, I have to make a big catch. So, um, that's one little thing, but just just knowing like Ball control is very important, I think, to with the game and Uh huh, I think that, you know, a lot of people aren't very good with that, and that hurts a lot of people, and I think that a lot of teams don't even know that it hurts them ball control.

So, no, that's a little advice. So it's I mean, I most wanted. It's common sense, but like if you wanna get better, um, And when I was talking to Tim Wells, Vincent told him, You gotta play against people that are better than you. Yeah, for sure. So it basically it just comes down to mentality like, OK, if you can throw a ball, then that could be worked on. If you can move, that could be worked on. But at the end of the day, if you if you don't decide mentally to get better and to push yourself to get yourself in these situations where you're uncomfortable, then you're gonna plateau.

And I feel like that should be common sense. Practice makes perfect. You know, it's just things that were taught in Little League and sports and at growing up. Yeah, but for some reason I feel like and I don't know if I will get blasted for this. But like some people, if they don't get good right away, they give up or they just they don't believe in hard work. And when I look at various teams and look at rise again, going back to concepts such as team by in and uniformity and practice and like all these things, it just makes sense that you guys would be where you are today because if any other team followed something similar.

I would almost expect him to have a similar result. So it's crazy. It's just it's crazy because again, it should be common sense. But I don't know if people really understand that or if they're willing to get past the whole You know what? I love dodgeball. I'm gonna make this a priority. I don't care if you call me a nerd. I'm going to go to a training camp. I'm gonna fly over and and make this happen because this is the level I wanna play at. Therefore, these are the steps will take to get there kind of wanted thio kind of pivot on that same concept and ask if you had any advice for aspiring captains because now and I shouldn't even say now.

I mean, this goes back way, way back. Teams are thinking that they're going to play against you and doom to get to the championship. I mean, that's almost it. Be a weird day if that doesn't happen where you don't face rise. So for teams that air, you know, picking up new players, and they're looking at 2018 elite with, you know, you know, eyes on the prize type of mentality. What? What advice would you have for Captain specifically on how they can get to you? How they can beat you?

Maybe maybe not beat you. But, you know, I mean, like, how can they get better? Well, first of all, I think that you have tow, learn how to fail before you become a winner. I really think that you have to learn that part. Um, so people need to just as a captain, you need to learn to, except that there's better out there than you. You know, there's better captains than theirs, Better teams than you. There's teams that have done it for a long time. There's teams that air up and coming.

Um, so I think from what I see right now, from a lot of the teams forming is too many teams just give up too quick. And, um, that's like the number one thing I see right now. I see a lot of talent out there, and the game has totally escalated from when me and you first started playing dodgeball, obviously, but that's kinda it's kind of what I see. I see just I see people just quit too easy, you know, like, dang it, This isn't working. I got this dream team and I've been playing with them for two years and win win.

Let's just break up this team and start a new one. It was like, Dude, you were probably just on the verge of creating the camaraderie that you needed to get to that next level. And you just folded like a lawn chair, and now you've got to figure it all out again. Meanwhile, you just make it enemies. I mean, you know, it's kind of why we just have tried to just stick together with just base it on a strategy thing. Um, you know something that I personally think that as a leader I need to work on.

That I've been recognizing lately is, you know, not hanging my head down low when things aren't going our way. And that's the hardest thing for me that I'm trying Thio adapt to. But, you know, I think there's areas to improve every level, so yeah, I mean, like, the kind of goes back to the Oh, I didn't get good right away. So instead of putting in the hard work, I'm gonna I'm gonna fold. And then earlier you said, uh, you gotta learn how to fail. So it's not because my family people don't think of it like that.

They're like they don't see failure is like, What's the same? Failure is like a short cut to success or some something like that, where you know, you wanna mess up, get that out of your system and then move forward to success. So you mentioned you don't wanna hang your head down. Um, you wanna be optimistic? You wanna be, um, clear minded. Does that come with failure where you've already been through situations before? And you're like, Hey, we survived or way pull yourself out of this like, Is that something that failure teaches you or that you prepare yourself for Yeah, a little bit of that.

And I think that another big thing about the whole thing that I'm working on is, you know, when I put my head down, it just reflects on my team, you know, and I'm supposed to be the one leading the team. I'm supposed to be the one that's upbeat. They're all looking up to me. Thio, you know, carry the team in in the sense as a captain. Then I need Thio. Thio start acting like that little bit better sometimes. Gotcha. Because if they look over and see downtrodden and they're gonna probably lose their morale also or be affected by it 100%. Gotcha.

Um, so what? Um, let's focus on you just a little bit. What? Um, I don't see where your secrets to being a great corner, But you kind of have like this You exist in the corner, and then somehow it's always you versus somebody at the very end. And it's like, Do you train for that? Do you anticipate that happening Or, you know, what is it that makes you so so dang hard to hit? Is that just your style over the years, or do you have, like, training that you've done or it's kind of weird toe ask you, How are you so good?

But that's I guess that's kind of what I'm doing. I don't know if that helps you to have an answer, but, you know, how did you find out that you're But you play the way you dio and that you're really good at it. I guess I've got a good, uh, I've got a good move. I guess if you want to call it that, that I do when I catch myself in trouble with, just say, um I don't want to share it. I'm sure some people know it or have seen it in the past, but it's a tough one that hit me on.

And I would give a lot of the credit to just, you know, just being extremely agile from playing football and stuff like that. To be honest with you, Um, it's faras just finishing games out one on one. I don't I don't want to say like, I practice that like, I just I'm competitive on. I don't like losing at anything. And so I think that I would like to say that I'm intelligent with the games. A lot of times I just like to, you know, outsmart my opponent or just be extremely patient.

And I know this majority of the dodgeball community is very impatient so that I kind of just use that toe to my advantage as much as I can, because I don't really have all the tools that some of these you know new guys have like with arms and great catcher and stuff like that. I'm just I would like to say I'm overall balanced, but I think that my intelligence of the game kind of helps me out with just finishing those moments off. Got you to be a great corner.

I think that I've been doing it for 10 years now. And, um, Tom Vikings, you know, super crucial, obviously to help. Not me, but the team and being extremely accurate. That's one thing that I am, Um but yeah, I don't know. My role has changed over the years. You know, I used Thio is to be really good at the bait and catch back in the day, and items pretty much been voted to no longer do that for other reasons. And so, you know, again, this team votes for everything.

So no longer do I really debating catch as much as I used Thio under critical situations. So anyways, um, yeah, I think just being accurate helps a lot, and just I think the number one thing that helps me with, like, play calling and stuff like that Just being intelligent to the game is just knowing the players, knowing that you know what certain players do and how predictable they could be and stuff like that, and just being able to be a quick, quick thinker with ball situation and just making the right call and limited time we have in the elite and stuff like that.

So that's that's definitely something that's helped me catch up. You mentioned of football, gave you some kind of, like, move for agility. Um, was anything else, Um, prior to dodge ball that you think help prepare you to become a good dodge ball player? Or did geologist coalesce into something that equals dodgeball for you? No, I don't think anything. You know, Like I said before, I just I've always been pretty good at sports. That was the one thing I was good at, and I've always been as competitive as they come.

And yeah, I don't I mean, I'm just I think staying staying fit and and, you know, just agile is obviously super important. Thio being able to dodge Good. And, you know, I think that Okay, having the being in really good shape just helps physically. And then when you're not physically tired, then you don't get mentally tired, and I think that it just kind of all works together there. Ah, give, like, a specific workout regimen that helps you prepare for this. Or like, I guess, Like you go to gym thinking I'm gonna make my legs stronger so I could throw harder, or I'm gonna do more cardio so I can make sure I can last, you know, next to 30 seconds, it high intensity dodgeball.

Do you have, like, specific workouts to help you with that? Yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna throw you harder than ideo. I mean, I've been throwing the same speed for the whole time. I've tried working on things and nothing really helps, so I just I throw hard enough thio get myself out of trouble on in, uh, in my opinion, and the accuracy definitely helps with my throat. Um, but me personally, I'm a firm believer of just, you know, staying fit. So I I go to the gym four days a week and left, and then I I play basketball, pick up full court basketball, usually about three days a week.

And that's how I keep up with my cardio. Gotcha. That's kind of helping you combat. You know, heaven forbid age and this myth that at least it's a myth for me. I'm not gonna accept until I'm dead that, you know, you slow down. I mean, I get that things hurt more now, you know, I made the comment about trying Thio take better care of myself and focusing more on recovery. Now, after a tournament released after the first day with the with Alan and a very happy to see that he's actually taking care of his body now because for somebody that's like 10 years younger than me, um, you know, let's compare how we feel when we're 50 and see who comes ahead.

Um, is there anything that you do more so now than you used to when you're younger to help preserve yourself from or dodgeball years to come? Well, I mean, I will say, I'll start out with I'm super sore after tournaments a lot more than I ever have been, you know, some some days, some weeks, like, you know, I mean, after the Sin City that wrecked me for four days, five days and then I had the training camp that week, and I almost didn't think I was gonna be ready.

I was just like, man. Now I'm finally realizing why you know professional football players retire on there thirties. It's just like it's just too hard. Thio. By the time here, you just get through the soreness. You gotta play again, and it's just like that. That could get exhausting over time. Um, I personally believe I'm a firm believer of If I tear my body up in the gym and I deal with the soreness on a regular basis, then that's going to keep me at a point where I could deal with it like it's no big deal.

If that makes sense, it does. I mean, in the military. They teach us how to be ableto do stuff, being sleep deprived so that we're not whining, you know, we're tired. I can't do this because I've never been exposed this before. Like it? No. It's just another day in the life of, you know, being active duty when you are. So that does make perfect sense. Um, I mean, if you go a long time without playing dodgeball Ugo ham or whatever, you know you're gonna be sore for a very long time.

and it's I wanna say it's excruciating, but there's no other soreness like it. But if you kind of prepare yourself to be sore and be comfortable and be able to function in that kind of, uh I don't see environment, but under those conditions, you're no stranger to it. So you know you can you can power through when you need thio Unless you know you're like you did during the l. A classic where you're thinking about whether or not you tore your Achilles tendon. Yeah, maybe that's when you kind of need t to slow it down a little bit.

Um, yeah, man, that's always been my biggest fear. That one injury, uh, ended up being just like an ankle spring. I just You know, I rolled my ankles thousands of times, and I'm sure you can remember when I used to wear those big old ankle braces which I've graduated from. Basically, I've always rolled my ankles. Was it in words maybe, or Albert outward? And, you know, just like anybody rules wrinkle. This time it went like the opposite direction. That's kind of why I was like I heard a pop and I was like Oh, that was a new I've never had that before, you know?

And then my Achilles was sore and I was just like, Oh, no. Well, three or four days later, it was, you know, the Achilles was fine and it was sore, just like on the inside of that ball on the inside your ankle. So I was like, Cool. I'm down with that. Anything but the Achilles, for sure. I mean, that they will take you out for a very long time. Yeah, And that usually sends that happened to older players. 36 now. So I'm a little concerned. I hope that that doesn't happen to me.

Or at the very least, you know, at least know what when uncomfortable becomes, you know, this is really gonna mess something. I wish Pi pi slow down just a little bit. At least have somebody look at it because that's Ah, yeah, it's rough coming back from that. Um, that was one of the questions that I had was you know, what was what has been your worst injury? Um, and how you've just dealt with, um, recuperation and and getting back into the game. If you even had one.

Yeah, I have I, uh So I've had four knee surgeries. Um, just kind of quiet about it. Um, so I've I've got pretty bad arthritis in my knees are already. For the last 10 years, I've dealt with it, But my worst injury, I would have to say, is something that I'm still dealing with right now. Um, it's had it for about nine months, and it's plantar fasciitis, and I've had a few surgeries on it already. And it Z man, my foot just feels like I'm walking on needles all the time.

It sucks, but I'm doing everything the doctor says and and the number one thing that, uh, messes with it is basketball. So I've had, you know, for a while there I did get out out of shape because I had to quit playing basketball for about five or six months. And you know, then I obviously put on a little bit of way just Yeah. Anyways, I just recognized that when I was playing dodgeball was huffing and puffing, and it was just affecting everything. And I just knew, like, for me, it was like, Hey, man, I can't be out of shape playing dodgeball because, like I said, earlier effects you physically and then it affects you physically start making stupid metal, missed aches, and I can't have that.

So it was like when the foot was feeling a little bit better, just hammered back down and got back into shape. And I'm almost where I need to be again. I'm not where I was, but that's okay. Sitting there you can work towards. So do you see it? Like as an like an uphill battle, Like, Dang, I'm going through a slump right now. Not as fast as I used to be, and not as whatever as I used to be. But I just gotta get through this because I know I'm gonna be there.

Do you see that As, like, discouraging, motivating, Um, or is it just something that you just don't care about your gonna push through regardless? Well, I pushed their regardless for sure. I always have been like that. Um, I do care. It's been frustrating. Um, I am the fastest player on the rise. Let's surge. No, that nice. My shoes on, and yeah, I mean, the injury, the injury bug is definitely not fun, but I guess it could always be worse. You know, At least I was able to for those moments where I had this foot injury, I just couldn't run to the line.

So the rest of the team had to pick me up and get the balls every time. But I was still able toe, you know, playing dodgeball for the most part, like I just wasn't maybe as agile as normal. But like I said, I'm my foot's feeling good. Now it's almost fully healed. I got one more scheduled to get one more cores. I'm shot and hopefully I will do the trick. Sure, Yeah, it's Ah, some of those things were like, Well, if I want the bad juju talking about injuries, But, you know, they happened and they could be almost a soul crushing.

But they could really way down on you when I, um, the first elite, We, um I broke my finger like, three weeks prior, and I have no idea how is able to play against people like, you know, people on rise and some of the people who throw 60 MPH because the dude that finally broke my finger was no offense, but he was He was like a regular directly Players like nobody and e Yeah, because it just it just happens. E guess there's There's two people that could be offended, the guy that did that, and then and the people that are actually really good at dodgeball, but not gonna backpedaling.

Um, it was just one of those freak occurrences where you know, I'm rushing the line, popping up a ball to block, and I just the timing wasn't there and broken finger and then crap. I'm I'm of no use to my team now, um, now it's falling apart, and it's like, dang it, like, been waiting for a long time for, like, a legit national championship. And it's already kind of sucks that you got to write it off for next year. And, um, it's just one of those things where you know, if your heart's in it, then you're gonna come back the next time.

Or for some reason you're taking out of the game. Just you have to rebound back, and sometimes it could be a bit of a struggle, and I do know that some people get discouraged and don't want to come back because of that because they see who they used to be versus who they are. And they and they I don't know if they don't have the I don't see the intestinal fortitude because it sounds cold, but don't they have? If they're lacking something, it doesn't want to get them to push through.

E kind of wonder What's up? Yeah, some people are just ready to hang it up at that point out. Yeah. Now, that's definitely not me, but I understand some people when they are at that point, yeah, as one of things you don't You don't want to see her wish on anybody. Um, especially gnarly injuries, like like the Achilles. But they're just some that you just might not bounce back from and just a precaution and especially now, playing against, um, at the level of playing, it's now, you know, I don't wanna say it's more frequent, but you you have to take care of yourself.

You have to condition, and you have to treat yourself afterwards. If you wanna last more than five or six years because back in the day, who knows what we're doing? You watch, you watch an n D L game, and it could be like the championships of whomever. And you're like, What are they doing? They s so fun to watch. But it's like such a slap in the face. I was watching after talking to Alan the Rampage Championship, and we just again look like a bunch of kids that are just playing street ball or something and give me, like, four other guys that play elite and will know both teams down.

No problem. Oh, yeah, it's just it's funny to see that I remember looking at some old videos, too. It's pretty messy stuff. I think it was just before, you know. I mean, I really think it was before teams were really, really competitive and good, and I don't think there was any reason for much strategy at the point. So I think it was just like a free for all. It was like the wild, Wild West, I guess, every every man for himself. Whoever can throw really hard wins wins the game, I guess exactly.

Um, so I guess kind of going back and forth on that. Do you have, like, a treasured dodgeball memory or a championship that you that is your favorite, and if so, why? Um I think that a good moment waas Championship wise was the first elite that we won championships. And I want to say it was just because it was like, in my opinion, the level of competition was just on the next level at the time. And it was just a tough time to win. Like it was one of the best tournaments that I've ever played in its back when Mark just invited, you know, eight teams and and it was just so much dodgeball like, he just made a cap and everybody just played all day long, and it was just a gnarly tournament way ended up coming out on top of that one.

Um, yeah, that was a lot of fun. And then the next year, we followed up in, won the championship again in Vegas and for the elite. That was another rad tournament that I remember and just cherish. Um, yeah, those are the two that I can think of that we're just great. I mean, there's a lot that she's from, Really. I mean, you guys won the n d. L championships. How many times enough to have Ed Prentice ask you to stop playing. Yeah, that's a joke, right? Yeah. I mean, I try to give credit where it's due with respect to the indie album.

They definitely gave us a I don't say, well packaged, but they they introduced competitive dodgeball to the scene. And I could definitely pinpoint when it became really for Arizona and a lot of our teams. A lot of players got to start there, but some of things were just completely just whack. I mean, I I don't I'll never understand. Um, if somebody is so good that they can't be beat tough, like, get better and put the work in. And it was, um So I talked about with Alan 11 of one of the disappointing things about our our championship in 2010 with Rampage was reading it to play for it.

Way figured that's how it was gonna end up. I mean, every grand can state games ended that way. It just made sense we would be facing off against you guys. And so when you guys were asked not to show up, we're like, Well, what kind of cheapens our win a little bit. We definitely had a hard time with the mixed plate crew out of Hawaii. But when you get too hot sauce, it's like, Well, we wanna win, We're gonna celebrate. We're happy that we won. But what what would have been like if it was against you guys?

And I'm like, I say, That's one of the things that haunts me. It's just, you know, you can't do that. And I'm glad it leads here for for reasons like that, Lee would would never do that. Uh, they they definitely have there. They know they know what to dio they know to do, right? And well, and it za great that it's happening. Um mhm. Do you have a on the flip side? Do you have, ah, moment where you kind of just want to say you regret But if you have the opposite of the highlight, like a tournament where you just like dang, that was awful.

Or maybe there's like, a good lesson for you or something like that. We had a tournament a few years ago in Arizona and oh, man, I don't know if I could say that's not, but I'd like to say we did bed, and it was so bad. It was just It was embarrassing. We just We partied too much that night. Obviously can't do that as we got a little bit older and stuff like that. The same and wouldn't played all day. And it was just There's a mess.

Um, that was the tournament that I could remember. I don't remember. I mean, maybe it was, like, a couple of years ago, but I think we got, like, seventh or something crazy. Yeah, that's bad. Yeah, it was pretty early. Was that Was that a leader Grand Can state games Or do you know what? That was? A chance? That was an elite tournament. Okay, I think because the last 2014 elite we took that one off, You remember it was you against Marcus for, like, an hour. It was just so excruciating.

Yeah, he's tough to hit two. Yeah, he's remember dealing with him a few times. He's not fun when he's the last guy on the opposite end. E mean, you're you're not either. But when you have both these people that are calm collected and are just waiting for the other person to mess up It's like This is exciting, but it's been 30 minutes. Let's end this like, because I don't know if that was like the final game. If we had one more after that, it's got to be so boring to watch.

I can only imagine it was It was just like Okay, I can only hold my breath for so long like something happened. Somebody get out. Let's let's let's move past this So we can so we can live again. But it was it was intense. And remember trying to coach Marcus as if you know, as if telling him, Hey, dude, be patient like Okay, cool. Thanks, Steve. I would never thought of that against him. E still deal with that to this day with Serge. He kind of gives me grief sometimes where I remember, like in the elite, uh, the Vegas Championships that we won the day before that I don't know if it's the same day or not.

Actually, it was we were playing pinch against dynasty, and it was just round robin. But I took out most of team by myself, and I don't claim to be like a pinch guy. I know how from surgery taught me how and I could hold my own. Obviously, you know, I could stay alive pretty good, but I went in there and I was just battling with this team, and I just overdid it. I was so, like, exhausted that I was dripping sweat. I was beet red, and I had, like, a lot of layers on, like, long sleeve everything.

And I remember that I was going one on one at the end with Kevin Bailey, and, um, he threw the bombing. It wasn't anything special. I blocked it and drop my ball because I was so sweaty. I just couldn't believe that I did that. I was so, like, disgusted with myself. Like, I just fought this whole time against these guys and lost like that. Come on. At least let me try and go for a catch and drop it or something. You know, you don't wanna go out like that.

And so I get out and I'm just I'm exhausted in search, like, dude, what are you doing? Like you can't waste your energy like that on a stupid round Robin Pinch game. What's wrong with you? I was like, Man, I don't I can't turn it down. Everyone, You know that like that's That's how I'm built like I'm sorry. Like its round robin. I don't care. I wanna win, You know, it is what it does. So that's definitely sometimes bit me in the butt, you know, just trying to win everything. Always.

So it's going full tilt little too soon. Maybe. Do you remember it was a volleyball tournament after the very first West Coast, Siri's elite And it was a beach tournament and we were on the same team and I don't know, maybe it's me that made the comment. I remember you were the last one in, which is basically the entire day, and you're just like, not wanting to get hit by a phone ball. And let's just assume it was me. But I think I made the common like dude, let's just end this like, why are you why are you going so so hard right now?

And then, he said, I wasn't born with a half hour. Remember that E actually can't play in the social lead here in San Diego because I don't have a half. Unfortunately, I'm kind of bummed, but you know That's what they told me. Basically, way don't really want you playing. It is too much. It's like, Oh, thanks, sorry I can't turn it down. How do you so so tournaments like Sin City, where you know they're competitive, but they're supposed to be lighthearted and fun. Um, I don't know if there's been a situation since the volleyball tournament where, you know, it's it's all in recreation and and just a good time.

Um, are you able? And I'm kind of getting this question from Jake. Are you able toe have fun doing recreational tournaments? I have a blast of the Sin City, but I'm still trying to win Everything. Doesn't matter if it's for money or for pride or or Oh, no, uh, no, if it's dogs, but I'm trying to win. If it's not, if it's not competitive and gonna push me to my limits, then I don't really want to play. If dodgeball was as competitive as it was, I would have already quit mhm.

And it's funny thinking that a tournament in cahoots, um, or at in cahoots was what qualified for a competitive environment for you. Yeah, I know, right? It was pretty competitive, actually. But the game has definitely escalated and just became so much more competitive throughout. Especially since, you know, Mark started the elite. That's kind of when I started recognizing, like, this is this is getting dangerously competitive, Like, you know what I mean. We gotta, like, put our heads in the drawing board. Just figure out the best strategy we can, because this is tough. Right?

Then, you guys guys, like, you know, catch him. And obviously Billy and Pine, who can throw extremely hard and it's just like, Oh, my goodness, like, how could we beat these guys with that type of talent you know on And you got the scary aspect where they're not just arms there. They can catch and understand strategy. And it's like That's not cool, man. Because I remember Remember Mason Shank Doom Train E had a monster throw, but he left himself wide open. He was a liability, and he wasn't till the later versions of like towards the latter half of the latter portion of his career, where he started catching.

But before that, okay, all you gotta do is just get low and the ball is gonna go 8 ft over our faces, then hit him, and that's it. Enter people like catch them, who are just there. Wingspan or Billy where they can catch basically anything you throughout them. It's very frustrating to play against. Very cool to watch. Yeah, I think they're too big for the sport. They should quit. Yeah, they really they should start their own league or just move on to something else. Exactly. Let us have our time. Still.

Let us have our fun. Um, yeah. I remember talking to Brett about Chris Bell one time, just during, like, a recreational league. And we're just going back and forth about how people are throwing harder now. And Brett had this crazy like, prophetic moment where he's like, That's, ah, there's gonna be a Steve. We're gonna look at Chris Bell and think That's nothing new. And I was like, What kind of monster throws harder than Chris? But it's almost as good as Chris can catch. Can bring the whole package.

And he's foreshadowing people like Catch him. I was like, Okay, well, three years later, here we are. And, um, yeah, its's. Like I said, it's It's scary how competitive it's getting and, ah, if we're not rising up to that challenge, then you know we'll be brushed aside at some point. Fortunately, not down to do that yet, but yeah, I mean, I would love to see catch him against that Alaskan guy and just see who would have prevailed or who throws harder. It's like one of the same here.

Like what was scary for us back in the day is like nothing compared toa You know what we're up against now? It's fun. Yeah, well, I didn't get to see that guy do much with any other ball, but Stinger So sting areas where he was super wicked. So who knows? Maybe he threw an 8. 5 balls hard is me who does, um, kind of going on to the evolution of dodgeball, and I only have a couple more questions left. Um, are you at all interested in the what's going on with team U. S. A. And going international?

Or you content to just stick with, um, with what you've got with rise on the local national front. And, um, that's tough. You know, I I'm not a huge fan of phone. What? I know I need to venture out and work on some phone game and get better at it and stuff like that? Um, I don't know. I guess if those guys approached me, then you know, I would think about it. This faras plane, I don't really know. Um I just I'm just not 100% interested in phone like I just I don't know.

I just think that my personal opinion 8. 5 is where it's at. But, I mean, that's the correct opinion. That's everybody else is just wrong. That's 8. 5 or die, right? So anyways, I mean, like I said, I could probably if they asked, you know, be on the committee. But I don't think that I would ever want to play for the U. S. A team. I just to me that doesn't It doesn't really do it. I guess if there if there was a 8. 5 U. S. A team got you, Yeah, home is Ah, I mean, it's it's an opportunity to to play.

Still, it's a different dynamic, so I can practice going back to the basics of dodgeball, and that's dodging, uh, with no sting. It's a little bit of a nice in between, but I'm always, always gonna love 8.5. That's just gonna be my first and Onley true love. I'm right there with you and I'm probably gonna make some enemies by saying this, but and, uh, firm believer that no stinging foam could just make an average player good with how some people can just manipulate the ball. Um, that's just my opinion again.

And I know that nothing is like up and coming, but that mean there's just too much weird stuff going on with the ball. That's just I don't know. It's just you really can't yourself out of trouble like an 8. 5 with a big catch or something, because there's all this weird, funky movement on it. It's just takes away from the game a little bit, my opinion, but my second favorite is definitely no sting over phone, that's for sure. Like a lot of 8. 5 diehards feel the same way it Z. It's far, far more impressive to see somebody like Justin acting so freaking screwball or bretz tend to five or whatever he calls it.

Cut her throw with an 8. 5 ball versus a phone ball like it's you could. You could do anything with the phone ball. Basically, it takes practice and I'll say finesse. But it takes something special to be able to manipulate in a 0. 5 ball and seeing people curve and manipulate that thing. It's always gonna be more impressive than seeing something happened with the no sting or phone because, of course, like how like that that XYZ too easy to do that. And so I agree. Just look at the numbers. How many people could manipulate 8.

5, all five and the no sting boulders? Probably like hundreds of people. Yeah, and it's, I don't know. I don't want to take away from from phone players because there's definitely a lot of talented players out there that if they could just pluck balls out of the air, and that's definitely worth noting because it does take practice and skill. But, you know, I guess I will forever be biased towards coming from back in the day when you know 8. 5 has been our bread and butter since 2004. 56 you know what have you It feels like it took me a long time to even learn how toe barely curve the ball for myself.

And like, you know, I practice that I asked my brother who pitches to show me how to throw a curveball and, um, I will always savor occur from a red rubber ball than a phone ball. That's just always my what I'm most impressed about, right? Absolutely. Okay, So going back to you know, the the evolution of dodgeball and and how crazy competitive it's it's getting how talented players are. Um, kind of asked Allen, This is Well, what does the one thing that you are looking forward to the most with this coming year?

Because it seems like there's always something better that comes our way from the Elite eight tournament to the elite 12 to the West Coast, Siri's to the National Front to for some people, the international scene. So with all that still moving on the ups with dodgeball, um, is there one thing in particular that you're looking forward to the most this year? Uh, not really. Like, I still I still just love the elite, you know, just 100% on board with that 8. 5, obviously, and and just hoping that we can get back on top.

You know, honestly, I just want to get back on top and, uh, and then, obviously the championships is awesome, too. I always love Thio, go out there and act like we know how to pinch a little bit. That's fun, too. And throwing those things, See how good we could do a leader or not where no state champions in New Orleans, which was crazy. But, uh, yeah, that would be kind of funny if we could do that again, too. Um, but no, that's not that I could really think of e just hope that it.

I hope it continues to go the way that's been going. It's just, you know, everybody gets along really well and you know the community and all that. I love it. It's great. Awesome. Goldman, We'll, uh, we'll go and end it there. When I interviewed Rob Hotel Emel during the second episode, I made a comment about a revelation I had prior to the interview. I must have sagged and something else because I didn't get into fully like I had planned, but it had to do with the consistency that dodgeball has provided me throughout the years.

I realized as I walk up to meet Tim Gym and surged during the L. A classic, uh, that they, like many more, have actually been staples in my life. Granted, dodgeball is just a small portion has provided me with over a decade of familiar faces, great rivalries, truly epic battles both experienced and observed and so much more than I could have ever expected. I know I harp on things like how far we've come, and I get sentimental at the close of each interview. But I know of no other way to offer my thanks for this amazing gift and journey that began that one night when a friend said, I should go play dodgeball to think what my life would have been like had I stuck with my original answer of F No, uh, it is a fun thought experiment, but when I said yes that one night, I really just opened the doors to Mawr Experiences and Mawr, Joy and Mawr trials and just character building than I would have ever expected.

And it's it's truly for all its faults, it's a blessing throughout all my struggles with dodgeball, the UPS and the downs, the ability to see certain people 3 to 4 times a year catch up, compete and then return to regular life only to do it again a couple more months down the road. Um, it's a world I feel that few people really get to experience, and it's something that needs to be truly cherished because you can't get this anywhere else. Um, dodgeball truly is a sport that has been evolved by a community of people that airfield almost entirely by passion and the ones that aren't there, that are in it for passion.

They don't last, and it's good to see the people that are in it for the right reasons. Um, time and time again. If there is one take away from this entire episode, it's the appreciation of anyone that truly respects to sports, not only get better but take it to a whole new professional level and elevate the people around them, inspire countless others to do the same. Across the court and across various states and regions. It has been a absolute pleasure doing this podcast so far. Um, I'm surprised that I've received the feedback and the support that I have.

But on that note, you know, I'm always gonna be hunting for more. So if you have any questions, comments, feedback, concerns, gripes, whatever you want, um, this is a podcast isn't about me. It's about dodgeball. And the best way that I know how to get that story told is through you. So hit me up if you have any, uh, any of the above and, um, I'll just end it there. Have a great night of one. So again, starting in 321 Hello, everyone. And welcome to another episode of the dodgeball podcast.

I know. I'm podcast. Alright. Trying in 321