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The Dodgeball Podcast. A sh(beep). This is gonna be hard.

INTRO MUSIC

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Sorry, sorry. Sorry, guys. Um, this is not the dodgeball podcast with friend Steve. Nope. It’s the It’s just a dodgeball podcast. Ah, but wait, Why, you might ask. Well, in a nutshell. Life gone the way for both of us. And it became increasingly difficult to coordinate all the moving pieces to create a quality episode. Um, plus, around that time, and based on the feedback we receive from many individuals, even those outside of dodgeball, it seemed like our mission of setting out to give a quick rundown on the world and community of dodgeball as we knew it for the non dodgeball enthusiast. Meaning, you know, somebody that never played a game in their life. Our mission to create a podcast for them was accomplished. Um, so between figuring out when we could all collectively commit to produce another Siris of 6 to 10 episodes or end of the season and also trying to figure out where to go even, um, you can just put on the back burner and life happened. Brett, got married and then, um, changed jobs. I completed my officer candidate school training and it just I mean, it was good stuff, but I digress. So will the dodgeball ball podcast with Brett and Steve be back? Well, I spoke to about a few months ago, and he did seem pretty open to the idea. So you never know. We’ll find out. Um, I’m sure that the more people ask the more my accelerator problem solving skills and we’ll figure out how we can coordinate all the moving parts to make and produce quality episodes for you guys. Um, if I were to guess or project, I would say probably around the time of the next elite season. Life willing, Right? Until then, you’re stuck with me. So what is going to make this podcast different? Exactly? Well, if you notice the length of the episode, this is not about the non dodgeball player anymore. Nay, this is about getting deep into the weeds and down the rabbit holes of dodgeball. And believe me, they exist from pre UDC free elite pre NDL. If some of you can even imagine going back that far, I want to go there. Um, I also want to focus more on the individual players themselves versus an overall theme. So where the dodgeball powered cast with the bread? Steve may have focused on the type of ball used or what a professional player might have been. This is gonna focus more on the story of the player where they came from, how they came about dodgeball, some of their highlights, some of their the opposite of highlights. You name it. Just I want to see where the conversation goes. I’m gonna do my best to stick to an overall theme some questions here, there but for most going to let this thing take its course. And so if you can hang with that and you might just enjoy this podcast. If not, I highly recommend you check out the Golden State’s indicated podcast with more Akram And since March, Banks checking out maybe the Book of Dodgeball from the Man from Bohol, a himself, David Tates and, of course, always shameless. Plug the dodgeball podcast of bread Steve. Um, either way, if you’re still listening, we’re gonna move on to my conversation with Eric Bread Truck. Tillman’s

Alrighty so I’m here with Eric Bread Truck. Tillman’s formally from the L A. Team gridlock and all around legendary player in stellar guy. Eric. Thanks for being on man and sorry. Take about, I don’t know, two months, If only get this paper rolling. Don’t worry about thanks for having me for sure, man. Um, so first question I had to ask, um, and I don’t think I’ve ever asked us before. Really? Is worded bread truck come from? Uh huh. It would have been from the ah, the game Show Network Dodge Herbal Extreme Dodgeball TV Show where I had been I had been cast in the first season and then, like, done practices and I couldn’t make one and didn’t get to participate and cast in the second season and was like going out of town for one of the days. And again, it was like a day of practice and then couldn’t participate. On the third year, I have been watching all these people that I was a better Dodge World player than I was watching them on TV. And it was a little frustrated. So I was like, Oh, I just, like, act like a like a crazy person because it’s a It’s a reality TV show and that will get me on. And so I was like, Yeah, I’m gonna come up with, like, a nickname and, like, just kind of, I don’t know, kind of act the fool on TV on I did. And then I can’t. I heard it was from, Ah, Charles Barkley’s some audio book or something where he talked about when he used to play basketball as a kid. Kids call them, they make beeping noises, and they call him like a delivery tracker of bread Truck because he was so big when he was backing up, and I don’t know why, but for some reason I thought it was such a It was just like a great, great, like, really weird nickname. And so I started using that on the game show, and then most of the people I played with new me from before that. But I’m not just cause of the exposure of that or because it caught on but, uh, just stuck from there on. It’s like 10 years later, and you’re like, Oh, yeah was an offhanded comment by Charles Barkley. It’s funny. It’s this to become such a part of life you like. I don’t know it just what it’s what it is like the truck. Very that feel like, uh, nicknames like, Really? Do you get to choose it like it’s just given to you? At some point? Collectively, people just agree. I’m gonna call this person Fred Track or hometown in Rob’s instance. And yeah, if it’s ah, it’s a dodgeball thing, but it just seems like everybody that is someone, and I don’t mean to offend anybody. Like if you are somebody you have a nickname of some kind. It’s just like a term of endearment or just like you earn it like a rite of passage. Yeah, I think there’s like the descriptive ones, too, where you’re on a court and this 20 strangers or something and you just need, you know, I got Let’s throw it Belushi. You know that God’s Will is probably heavier. Guy with a you know, doesn’t like something, you know, like I think there’s some of that to where you just need a shorthand. Ah, yeah, I don’t do that. I just so like I really low key. I don’t yell very much. Sorry, I have that going against me, but when we’re trying to, like, call play, I’ll just start a point of the guy like Look it just because the odds of him dodging a collective throw of three or four people, it doesn’t matter, you know we’re coming for you. And surprisingly, it’ll work out most of time. My favorite is like when I pointed him. The guys like you can’t do that. You can’t just way, too. Where’s the suspense? But I think that gets into the that summoned all the strategy and dodgeball has to be able to be executed by dodgeball players like no offense to your friends and family that you know what I mean, where it’s like All right, we gotta cut this town to the bear. How about we point at the guy and then yes, like everyone will actually get that because the more you try toe, do your codes or do it. I don’t know. Try to run plays. It’s like I don’t think a lot of people are on board for it. You have to all be bought in to talk about it beforehand, get to practice like it’s treated like a legit playmaking play combine and then and then executed when there’s a bunch adrenaline going on. Uh, yeah, that’s Why? Sometimes pointing to straight of works, right? I am. I mean, then that’s what I think. I think those work really well, my favorite thing to do is, like, appointed somebody and just pray that the other three or four guys we’re gonna throw with me and I’ll choose somebody else. It’s not even paying attention because they’re like, Oh, yeah, I’m totally safe. I don’t think sometimes it works out really great. And sometimes we’ll get caught like, Well, I’m an idiot. Can’t control my own direction, but Well, yeah. Speaking of, ah, play calling. I tried adapting gridlocks when I was part of you guys are with gridlock was July, Uh, was that pre did West Coast rotten around three. Yeah. What’s goes around three? Yeah. Africa is feeling and forth. He was Kale or ah, assuming for somebody was just awesome being able to put it away with play with them. And the it sounded easy enough on paper and like I know. Okay, I’ll explain it to me. I told you, Just explain this to me like a three year old. Explain it like Okay, cool. I got this, and then I would totally not get it like, Well, I guess I’ll just stay in the corner now and absorb balls for you guys are this’ll be in the corner. Shame for a little bit, the grid like throw codes, which worked pretty well. We’re definitely a like from the beginning, like we’re gonna make it as simple as we can because it’s just hard to come up with anything. And then once we’ve got the simplest version of a down, slowly expanded because there’s just I mean, I came up with most of it and still on the fly I had tons and tons of problems because it’s just I don’t know if if you don’t practice a lot as a team and we always we practiced a little, but not a lot. You know, uh, any of that kind of coordination is hard. And then, as you try to ramp up the difficulty, it’s harder and harder for sure. There we are. Back in the days of rampage we had, it was like if if three people on our side had balls, the play color would be like OK one, two and three, and people that filled slots from left to right. It would be the ones that are throwing. So if I said you know, one and three, that means the first person and then the third number for the third slot would be throwing. So like, OK, we know these two people are gonna throw. And then I would say on five. And so if I would be like the opposite team from 1 to 6, left to right, right? And like talking about simplicity for some reason, that worked really well during, like, one of our terms that led up to the Indy L Yeah, and, uh, my guide to be sound like a bunch of nerds like it was way Thought were so hard core and so cool and so like on the same page. And it just sounded like, ridiculous. And it’s such a weird feeling cause we’re just destroying teams. Like Like, I guess, like you normally would it mean if you if you play dodgeball long enough, you can roll into any tournament and just you get child? Yeah, and so, like, this wasn’t really necessary. But it’s good practice because it did. We did utilize it or attempt to, I think against, like, rise and at the time Monsoon, which is our kind of rival from Arizona. Yeah, and Ah, I remember one time I was just like, destroying these. These guys like madness. Is this too much like I look really good in this jersey like, we’re all quote color, coordinated straight. But these guys are just here to have fun, like, half a more probably drunk already. And they’re just getting rolled by these guys. They’re calling out these crazy number plays. And yeah, it was a funny, uh, Jackson position, I guess. Yeah, I think there’s always a little bit that in Dodge a ball. I mean, there’s serious teams and there’s fun teams, but I think it’s rare that you get a whole attorney where everyone’s on the same level. So, yeah, I mean, you’re gonna be behind or ahead of somebody No one. If there’s gonna be a day where you know their coaches, they’re calling it like there’s gonna be a coach first of all, and then there’s gonna be, like, play callers that are like signaling you. What the what the call is gonna be. Somehow we’re using some kind system where they can get that message across superfast. Yeah, I Because one I mean, in all sports of the strategy is an important part of it. Right there. Very few, that air just physically driven. And then in dodgeball, you’ve got multiple balls, multiple people you’re targeting and in most turning some sort of shot clock. Yeah, you’ve either gonna have practice. But you also don’t always know your lineup because you’re losing people, you know? So either you’re running set plays that you practise enough. You could just execute, which I kind of think is what rise does a lot of the time or you have enough. Uh, you know, players that air physically able to just, you know, take solo shots and knocked people out. You don’t have Teoh scheme around another team because you guys air just all physically strong enough. That’s kind of dunes method for a lot of it. I think for a lot of the rest of the teams, you’re gonna need something someone not on the court calling in so that they have because all they’re doing then is just figure out what’s going on and what needs to happen. And you call the play in because there’s too many variables, I think for people on the court to be doing it, uh, that’s not the No team is good without it. But I could definitely see that being the way that teams could step up like another evolution in this set up. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s hard to tell, because right now, with the rule sets still all over the place, uh, I think what may work really well in one attorney or one division just just doesn’t have the same effect in another. And because of that, I think you need, like in football, you can have a The set of rules is out, and it’s like, All right, well, then they the West Coast offense comes and they all of a sudden it is defeating. Current defense is and then that. All right, what? We’re gonna figure out the cover to to figure out that sort of thing and say, switch to that and like, you get this like evolution because it’s around one style of play. But with everyone having a travel into different games of different styles and everything, uh, I mean, good players will be good in any of those, but I don’t think you’ll have an evolution of strategy unless you’re like forced to play the same way enough that you get some kind of meta gaming inside of that Good point. I think maybe elites come the closest so far, like India. All had a good They had a good run for what that’s worth. But you’re right. That may have been thinking about this weekend’s tournament coming up the the L A classic where it’s it’s likely, but I guess it’s three different styles of balls. So that’s gonna change the dynamic entirely three times, right? And it’s like Well, from foam. Just stay alive. Because now everybody can throw. Everybody’s a weapon, essentially no staying more or less the same. It’s gonna be, can be out catch. And then girl 8. 5 is Can we muscle our way through if not given catch away through and then, Oh, by the way, we just played two divisions prior. So let’s see how it yeah, I think. I mean, I’m more part of everyone that’s playing in that, but the especially now that kind of arms strain I picture from switching. I mean, just doing three attorneys of any ball style three. Like short. Turney’s even is difficult, but yeah, that different. I mean, I don’t know. My I do all through those balls very differently, and I cannot just switch that quickly between them anymore. Around off, ever could, uh, I think will also be interesting just to see. I’m sure there will be some no sting teams because it’s l a that are very good. No sting that. Yeah, I just don’t know how to participate in the other styles. 30 funded watch. Yeah, I feel like it’s my revenge cause I’m awful at foam and like, Okay, at best that no sting. Yeah, and like watching like, people would throw me and be like, Oh, I can catch this all day, any day, But it’s not a 00.5. It’s going to curb, or it’s gonna bank or somebody threw a shot at me. Dylan then open gym last week and like, it completely passed my guard. I thought it was safe and that the last things like, Wait a minute, this is foam. It’s gonna like comeback isn’t and sure enough, like hit me in the But I was like, God dang it like yeah, different game. Yeah, both. When the little balls always they don’t have the same kind of weight. They can really just got a Ping Pong off you so much faster than the big bowl. That’s the one that gets me the most. We can trap it in the same way you can’t trap it. And then I think if you’re used to trapping like that with 8. 5 definitely could happen foam like it’s more of a hands game. Forget, don’t be just completely at the exact same time to trap it. But, yeah, foam is something else. And then no staying a little bit easier cause it’s got that give. But still, it’s like it’s so fun watching and so satisfying watching the phone pearl player come to 8.5. Welcome to my world now, man like tides have turned like if I have a chance. Yeah, I I especially is a is an older player. I really like. The leveling that 85 does were just yet. It tamps down how hard people can throw and doesn’t necessarily even reward off the big arms. You know what I mean? It’s so much more angles and movement that sort of thing. Exactly. Yeah. So speaking of such, um, back when you played kind of go back to pre in deal When you when you get played for extreme dodgeball Did you guys use 8. 5 inches back then? Yeah, that was what we have been playing for a couple. It was more more than a year, maybe two years before the movie came out. And then after the movie, Uh, those guys, the game should never put together extreme dodgeball and was, yeah, it was all. I mean, they basically, as far as I understood it, talk to Costanza for something like a We need a rule set. We need to know how to put this together is a competitive game. And that’s what we were playing in l. A. That whole time on DSO 85 became the ball for, uh, extreme dodgeball, though Then they added that, uh, they had I don’t even know how big would have been when I was 20 30 inch balls, like about the big ball, because they how weird, like you had a different ending antics. And let’s just pretend this is not real Dodgeball. Onda have fun. It was the 1st 2 seasons were just a lightless. You get hit and you may catch is a kind of regular dodgeball. But the teams were goofy. They were like a team of midgets against a team of jock Curry was those jockeys and, like mimes and accountants, you know, I kind of silly based teams. Second season was the same, but like a little more serious where was like, Oh, these air, these Air security guards and these guys are like Navy Seals, like a slightly more serious. And then the third season, they tried to create a point based game where, like hits were worth a certain amount and catches for a certain amount. And once you knocked a team out, they all came back in. So it really changed. Ah, we just really screwed with the game, frankly, was a pretty, a pretty bizarre way to play dodgeball. That’s really certainly sorry. Go ahead. There’s a there’s always that 85 more. Yeah, yeah, So when I would play dodgeball people like, Oh, man, you get your point dollars Well, just like it’s on TV Or do you watch that show? Michael What? It’s on TV like I’m really good. Therefore, I can be on TV like tomorrow, like get me on their, you know, to step mentality that we all had back in the day and watching the I guess I don’t even call it like the de evolution of dodgeball because it wasn’t really a thing back then. But just seeing, like mimes against the Chicago police or whatever have you was like dang it like that just set us back like, five more years, even though we’re not really going anywhere anyway. We’re still like Louis played a little just like the movie, and one day we’ll get serious. Yeah, well, it was interesting because at times I would say, Remember, at least in the first season, each team had least one or two like players that played with us regularly. They were pretty good, and especially that second season, I remember being like, fairly filled out with it. Good enough players that you had. You had good games there, everything, and that third season it was everyone could play pretty well. The problem was, Yet you dress it up with with all the cartoony stuff and it doesn’t matter what the games were like, you know, the adept when it’s just a novelty to most people and, like, go to mimes and well, not do you. Ah, do you remember anybody from there? Because I think, um, dealing person, I think is left is Jake Mason and David Benedetto. I think they’re a part of that. Actually, I don’t think Jake was unless I find mistaken. I’m sorry, Jake, but because it was a pretty would like people that still play. I mean, Costanza was there, Uh, I was there. I mean, from on this show. Uh, is there going to be a part of that? What’s that, Eric? I day he was never on the show and he played in that. Actually, you might have started right about when that was over. It’s hard to remember honestly, cause it’s like probably 12 years ago has left four years ago. Benedetto and I are the worthy. When I stopped playing, I think we’re the only two that were, like, still regularly doing turnings that played back then the play on the game show. I should say there were other people, especially in the l a scene that played then and still play now but just never were cast. Gotcha. And so you said that prior to the TV show this was L. A dodgeball society that had been exists or had existed a couple years prior to that. Yeah. So is that like 4003 ish? Definitely 2002 or three? I’m not sure. I would have guessed early 2003 but it might be late 2002. Ah, yeah, I just haven’t. I was, like, literate, just like poor and was looking for something to do on the weekend and was like uncredited list like free things happening this weekend. And there’s some ad for it, and I showed up and it happened to be the first week that Michael did anything for it, but it is very likely just small, like rec center Jim. Uh, but it’s so before the movie before the TV show any of that? So it was pretty niche. I’ll say. Usually it’s ah, you have some like outcroppings of leagues and organizations like they were there just prior to the movie, but not within a couple of years or so, right? That’s crazy. I wonder what So Costanza founded l a doctoral study. Yeah, I want to go into his mind like a We should start a dodgeball. The eager we should definitely play dodgeball, even at that point is such a of random sport to just start up. I wonder what motivated him to do so Planted reach out and find out. Yeah, that’s a great That’s definitely stands a question. Ah, I mean, I know he really always enjoyed dodgeball, but I don’t know, considering them out of time. He’s spent like running it and doing it. Then he must, you know, you must have some vested interest in where the sport goes, you know? But that’s all. Really. That’s really on him. I haven’t I haven’t really kept up with the wds leagues as much since I stopped playing No sting. So I don’t know where all that’s going and what’s happening. Seems like it seems like every day I look up and there’s some new organization putting something together, and, you know, I have tried to step away from that a little. Yeah, that’s fair. I mean, especially back in the day when, um, when this is all of this will surprise you. I do remember Mark Murphy from the National Dodgeball Association. The in day. Yeah. So, like, he planted that The podcast seed for May, 11 years ago? Like, literally he, um And this is this is what I was gonna say. The fight sound weird. He shared a recorded interview of, ah view Because he was, um he was trying to find, like, the All stars. And this is one pinch was a thing. And so we were Yet you put together this pinch team with me and ah, sampled the guys from Temecula and the sea bass, if I remember it, Yes, sea bass. Sebastian. Scotty. So part of, uh, we re part that the guys would play Arena Football League’s are reliable. Yeah. Yeah. We’ve played in a bunch of arena football Would be like half timer or awesome shows. Those were pretty fun. So what was it like that? Because the picture teach showed me where the pictures that were featured on his website were like, You guys are playing in front of a crowd of people like led it stadium packed full of people. And you just see, like, dodgeball players make. How does that how do you how Could you bring that to Tucson or to Arizona or just toe the world? Yeah, well, so here’s that. So I mean, we’ve done it at Staples Center. A lot of the Ah, a lot of the arenas. I think it was most of the times when I did it. And so this may be different Now was what I’d call more like the barnstorming era where kind of like you put together a team or an organization, put together a team, and then you’d you’re like, Oh, there’s a tournament in Bakersfield and the finals for it are gonna be at their arena football league halftime. And so you just kind of get a group, go out and do that and then four weeks later back Oh, hey, there’s something happening in Portland and there’s, you know, you just kind of like travel and do these turnings. And then, aside from that small sports markets and notably Arena League football for us, uh, they need They need free entertainment on this halftime shows. And so I think for them it was this very small investment to get, you know, all the teams were given free. They were given like cheap tickets, a pack, a bunch of people into the stadium. It give them something to show at halftime. I think it was kind of beneficial all around for that. And that’s not gonna work for something like the Lakers were that you people will pay to be the halftime show for us. But if it was, I think dodgeball could find a home there by finding a sport. I thought a really football was a good one to school, obviously not super similar, But you could see the audience for one being interested in the other. Uh, but I don’t I don’t I can’t off the top of my head. Think of another one, but I think that’s what you need to do. You need to have that audience already there and then expose Um, I think there’s been to much like too much comedy in the water right now for it to be taken seriously. Uh, the closest you get is Ah, I guess, like the trampoline dodgeball, cause that’s actually on ESPN. Be even that It’s like six slam ballistic on trampolines. I don’t know if that’s the I think we’ll beat as serious a slam ball was, you know, shame. Wonder how long that will ask is Slam ball is like two seasons tops. Maybe. Yeah, I just listened to a podcast by the guy you founded Slam ball, and it’s found a new life in China because they’re real in the three on three basketball, I guess. And so they just you to sign this big contract of reintroduced slam ball and China. But yes, it’s been on the shelf for whatever seven years. Uh, well, I would say we can always outsource dodgeball two of the country’s, but it would seem dodge balls bigger in other countries than in here anyway. So it’s just yeah, well, and then you get into the lake. If I show our style of dodgeball in Japan, aren’t they gonna be like, Oh, no, we play three on three with three people behind the court and take it to another. That’s part of that. There’s no paradigm for how dodgeball is played. There’s no unified rule set, so it gets into that little bit of like I can turn on cricket and be like, Oh, I kind of get what’s a good play because I kind of know, cricket But since it’s not something I grew up with, I can’t appreciate it like because I don’t know the rules. I think there’s a lot of that in dodgeball. You show up to someone else’s dodgeball game. You’ve never been to their league before you acquire they trying to shoot baskets or like Why aren’t people sniping? And it’s just ago. Well, basket brings the whole team in and all balls off the block or dead. So sniping someone without even getting UNIX by block is really hard. There’s like, Oh, well, that’s a very, very different game than how we play. Um, and then internationally, I think it’s just you’re farther away, so the rules get more and more different. I like hearing parent and Spectators come in to watch, like a tournament or league, and they get into it and they’re all excited. And then for some reason, you know, to the untrained eye, it looks like so and so got hit like, why is that person not how did hit them like well, actually it hit a player that was already dead and therefore about south, this player or hit a ball which was able dead and like I can totally see, like even for them would be hard to get into just a simple, likely game or a simple local term, because you expect simple rules like I get that person. Therefore they’re out, and that’s that’s it like there’s no and it kills me because my my favorite is small court small team like six small 8586 on six like a playing five games. But I’ve been a part of a lot of trying to film dodgeball, trying to sell dodgeball. Trying to figure out how to present dodgeball is a medium sort of thing, and I just I don’t see it working with six balls for a lot of the reason you’re saying where it’s just like every ball has all this like or like, even though simplified rule sets worth like First Contact goes through, you know, give you block its data for bounces off someone, it’s deadly. Even with that, it’s a lot to ask an audience member to follow, um, and were people that play it all the time and I’ll sit down and watch a game and not catch stuff. You have to turn this only I go. How did Bob get up? Like what happened there? Accounts half the team walking out right now. What happened? Right? And so, yeah, there’s a There’s an element of that. I think that if the rule said allows for that kind of chaos to have high impact plays like put players getting out, then you have to figure out a better way to deliver it. And that could be, uh, you don’t show it live like so you can. You can add it up like they do for a lot of the dodgeball TV shows. Or you could do it like, uh, like boxing where it’s shorter games or shorter matches were in between. You can do slo mo replays of ah, the better plays like kind of like the better punches in boxing like you just got. You got to break it down in some way for an observer toe watch and appreciate it. And I think that’s the biggest problem. Dodgeball is going for. Where every other sport is like a ball, you will focus on it, so you have the most. The least educated person can still watch that ball and roughly follow the action and in dodgeball. Even that low rung is out. And so, until you get into the one on one or two on two, people don’t have a good firm grasp of what’s going on in the game and just I don’t think it makes it very accessible. I know that they also don’t like connect to any particular player. Is a team’s problem crop up out of nowhere? And so I think you said when it gets when it gets down to that one on one or that three versus one and all of a sudden you’re rooting for the underdog because he or she dodged, you know, three or four different barrages. Yeah, I go, This person, you’re awesome. This is great And you get really excited for a second and then, you know, who knows until the next time that happens. And some games are a Zo ver as over in his under 15 seconds. I think Team Eagle is one of those teams that broke the record. Unfortunately against Doom, like just ate crap before, like the 22nd mark. That clip? Yeah, I cannot There certain clips, I just will not go away. Yeah, uh, some games I take a little longer, but they don’t have someone. Just don’t have that drama like Oh, yeah. Okay, cool rises. Point against Doom. I’ll, uh, I’ll come back in like, 20 minutes when something cool happens when it’s like Alan against Ah pion topical watch brightly Waking happens. That’s one of things that I think elite has done something at least interesting with, like, I don’t participate in those, uh, one on one things that I never did participate in those one on one games. Now the showdowns, Yeah, and I don’t because I don’t particularly like it. But what I do like is that Marx trying something different and that it does draw a crowd because I think it’s different and some people really like it, and it doesn’t all have to be for me for to be good for the sport. Like I said, like, I like playing style of the game that I think is ultimately unfilmable, and I don’t know if it could ever be digested is like a like an Olympic sport, like how people wanted to be, uh, so I think we need to try new things, and I think it’s really great that he’s kind of figured out a new way to package of dodgeball and presented to people they really show like a who’s who. Because, you know, some some one on one matchup so you can only dream about that will never happen or the chance of them happen are very rare. But like if you find out no, Vince is going up against catch him. I want to see that. Yeah, I would love to wonder, Precise because all the all the angles we’re gonna be there for me, right? That’s Ah, that’s like a league Players wanted to see elite players play against each other. But were you ah, re part of the Indy Els pro protein pro? I was I was very against Ed Prentice very early on. Ah, and I really didn’t like how he structured his like, you know, quote unquote proteins where it was just I didn’t like a lot about how they set everything up there, and I especially found him to be very shady for for host of reasons. And so, no, I was I was not interested in that, like, every year they were I mean, I’m not just it was like bank use. It wasn’t like, uh, you know, banging down my door to get me to play or anything like that. But you like every year I was definitely the caliber of player then that could have been one of the proteins and was just did not have an interest. That’s fair. I mention that because the second season, when we were did you go to any of the Indy L events? Then? Yes. So that’s the and that’s where I mean, that’s how I know I’m not talking about a hand. I we went to, uh, many of those, and I just Yeah, I mean, had at varying degrees of success like one a couple like but said so many negative experiences there, both with the games and just kind of how it was just also so shortsighted. It was just always chasing a nickel and giving up the dollar in the future kind of thing where it seemed like his business idea was that he didn’t that he felt real scam me all the time and that to me you can’t if that’s the basis of your organization, you’ve got a real problem and it felt like that’s where he he had his hooks and a good thing, and he figured that out. But then, as far as how he decided to execute and expand and interact with the players, was just exploitative. I don’t know. It’s kind of gross, you know? Yeah, that’s not to get too into it, but, like he definitely, um, the approach that he had. We’re shutting other people out and saying we’re the only show in town and you can’t go do this without our permission. Was he was just not in a position to do that If he had waited 10 15 years and actually built the organization? Sure. Maybe, but he really, because he would use this analogy, were like, You don’t come in to somebody’s house and sit at the head of the table. If you’re a guest. I was like, Well, look in the mirror, dude. Like, that’s exactly what you did. And, uh, you know what? We all know how that turned out, but every night up, because we ah, the second season of the second dw c. You know, we played in that warehouse with the with the Astro turf for the first day that It was a terrible idea. I actually I miss. I was injured on that one, but I heard all the stories from back. It was the killing field for knees. I was so, so bad. Like, I gotta walked away from that one. When they got over that, though, Um, Sunday, like, professional season day, they had a pretty legit attempt to make it look like a well presented, packaged professional season. So they kind of did what you were talking about. Like they were pre recorded everything as you know. And then, um, they had, like, I don’t know what the word is. Maybe you do actually cause of your background, but like ESPN quality cameras and camera crew and the boom mikes and all that good stuff, I was like, Oh, wow, this is legit. Like, this is really gonna happen. We’re gonna have a really awesome, well package program. And it was so fun to watch and x y z And even then And this is not knocking Danielle at all. It’s just like you can have the best, most professional set up, but because you can’t even see some of the balls that are flying because you can’t trace six or set our five or six of these things taking place. It’s ah ah lot of its standing around. And then somebody walks to the Q. Staying around some key walks, the key like it’s just really hard toe capture around its is an out I did one did the games on TV, had a whole lot of cameras. I did the they did a special for the movie for MTV. Where they did, it was Ben Stiller and Vince Vaughn, and they had four teams that were, yes, a punk team in a hip hop team. And ah, I remember the other to, uh, I bring it up, though, because they had. Yeah, it was like two cameras on cranes to on either like back lines in like two or three wild cams were just like the guy holding the camera. Walking around like they had coverage is still just a it was garbage product. It’s just it’s so ah, well, this is This is the story I usually tell about at this point in telling someone else about how it is, how hard is to film. Dodgeball is. I watched this documentary once I can’t find it now. But it was about how, when the NFL started that they there is something like, Hey, at the time, it was like, kind of this regional game from the south. And they’re like, Well, how do we like film this thing? It’s like rugby or like like, how do we film it? How do we show this on TV as, ah event? Because, like, what’s really important is all this play on the line and had this guy coming here. This is basically knew he knew TV and he was like, No, no, no, we got a we’re gonna frame in. We’re gonna frame wide at the start like you see everyone line up and then we’re gonna go tight on the quarterback because he’s the hero we’re going to cut even. We’re gonna show him under pressure. He then throws the ball and we swapped cameras to, like, you know, the guy trying to catch it, And, uh, you know, like the battle out on the island out there has this kind of, like narrative. It’s like this man against these forces sort of thing, which it’s why football’s popular now, because it’s this great little story that repeats over and over again, right? But the physical game of football? Yeah, it’s about lying play. It’s about coverage is about all these things that the way you watch football on TV doesn’t show any of it. Unless you’ve got that all 22 camera like the NFL Network lets you see you’re not seeing the game. You’re seeing a very entertaining way to see things happening in the game, you know? I mean, and that’s what Dodger Bowls never figured out. It’s still always trying to have, like, just put a camera on the roof and pointed straight down and like, you don’t then it’s so far away. You don’t get any of that kind of like punchy action on the ground. And if you’re down on the ground, I can’t see anything. And like at some point, someone will figure out how toe film it, right? Maybe. But it kind of gets back to us and you get you get six balls and 12 guys. It’s It’s good luck. It’s a big ask. Yeah, it just I mean, like footballs, more guys than that. But at least there’s one ball, and like I said, they take the shortcuts for what they actually play, like what they actually film versus what’s actually happening. That’s really interesting. You, um, mention the quarterback as like the hero, because that I think at least in my experience, like we’re trained to watch the quarterback, the quarterback is the leader. He is the one that’s executing plays. He’s a hero in every single football movie. It’s always like the quarterback that has issues indelible, overcomes them and becomes a unit saves the day. He’s always the one that runs the last touch out in the end zone. And, ah, even watching like a live game like my eyes are just they’re just naturally trained to watch. What the quarterback does. Doesn’t matter where I’m sitting the stadium. It’s always about him doing the first play that’s gonna kick off the rest of the action. That’s pretty crazy, I wonder, Like, Who would? How do you even begin to set that up with with dodgeball in film? But, well, I think it gets into that. I still always think it’s gonna toe be a ball reduction that you play Yeah, down. I mean, like one of my favorites toe watches the Japanese style, where it’s three on three with a single ball. And then there’s also, like three guys that play behind your team on either, like one guy on either sideline and one guy behind. That makes sense like my players play. If we’re playing each other, my guys play behind you and you guys play behind me. So it’s three on the court on three behind the other team. Yep, side on the necessary go for you. I can throw it over your head, hit my guy, and we can kind of tag team you, so to speak, like s. And anyone played any of, like the Nintendo Dodge ball games. Long time always based around the Japanese style of it. But what’s nice? It’s one ball, and there’s three guys out there and so you can follow the ball. And then you’re very quickly getting into situations where it’s one or two guys on the team so you can focus a little bit more. Uh, I don’t know. I’ve talked to some people about it, and I think unless you have the right court for it, where the ball stays in play and unless you have the right kind of countdown to keep that ball and throw moving. It could it could stall out. But I think the right rule set with that kind of set up could be very Phil Mobile. So we’ll see to your point if we ah, be interesting to see what happens five years from now where we’re at. Yeah, very. I’m at least happy to see you to see on ESPN, whether it’s 33. 5, the Internet, like I was, ah, commented on a thread. I remember watching a kitchen 2009. I was watching the 2007 yo yo championships on ESPN. Two Only. It wasn’t a prime time slot for television, but I was just like, You gotta be kidding me. There’s no way that dodgeball cannot feel at least this spot on Saturday night or Friday whenever, whatever night it was just like, Come on, but yeah, I mean, that’s the hard like for everyone that I and I love dodgeball, but you go Teoh like I’ve been toe like a triple A rodeo. Like not even a real rodeo like a true you know what I mean? Like it down the pecking order rodeo, and there’s 30 times the amount of people in that than have ever been in any dodgeball than I’ve ever seen. And there are now some larger dodgeball tournaments that are getting you like, a decent enough turn out like some of these. Ah was a WTF for whatever. Like the national type. Things seem to be having, like, a decent enough crowd and sound like they had some like okay, ones and some of the events in Australia. But you hold it up against sports that I think Dodge ballers would roll their eyes at. Maybe not the stick of letting maybe not yo yo but like down the pecking order a bit. And there needs to be some some realistic thought there, too, about how, like we’re into this. But where does it stack up with, like, you know, Joe six Pack Just six. What is it? What’s the just six pack? Just expect that the normal man, I think Joe the Plumber. But I prefer Joseph Yes, saying, Uh, yeah, what a normal person, how a normal person views the game and that’s that battle of like the we’ve got a lot of there’s a lot of ground to make up for all these comedy versions of dodgeball that have been presented for sure. And they even compared to football baseball, like Dodge, was been around for a guess. 15 16 years. If we ah, we use Costanza’s like patient zero. That’s where it all began, at least in the States. Yeah, you know, 15 17 years versus the NFL’s. I could even tell you 50 60. Yeah, that one’s even mean. I mean, the flip side of that is you look at the top three sports in America in 1900 reading something about this. And it was, uh, horse racing, boxing and baseball. And then it’s like, 50 years later, horse racing. And, uh, horse racing is very being followed. Boxing still important 50 years after that, both horse racing and boxing or barely there at all? Uh, you know, football really comes up in the sixties, so it’s like 50 years old, like things can change. Things can change very fast. You can go from a niche sport. You can. I just actually just listen. This podcast was talking about food where they’re like before the eighties, like sushi like known as having sushi, and they’re saying before the I feel like it was like the seventies yogurt. Was this niche food that only Greek people? Eight. It was just like, Yeah, but like, things change like it can and it can change very big And like we don’t even think of yogurt as a exotic or ethnic food. It’s just like a staple that you have with breakfast sort of thing. Just having pompous, be late after yoga. Yeah, and so them. And then that can happen with a lot of things with sports, with TV, with movies that we see all that stuff change. But you know, there’s there’s reasons that happens and because, you know, industrious people get behind it, figure out how to package it and figure out how toe get it in a lot of people’s hands. And that’s the ah, where dodgeball still is. A lot of a lot of ground to make. For sure. I want to go back to gridlock those actually with my first questions but kind of beard off. But no, that’s an issue. Um, why gridlock? Why the jerseys and, um, what is with the rapture or or T. Rex? Oh, grim lock, the theme grim like the mascot of gridlock. That’s awesome. Yeah. Ah, yes. I was surprised that so many people don’t. They’re just like, who is that? Yeah, they think he’s, Ah, some sort of robotic dragon, which is, you know, I don’t know if that’s better or worse than robotic dinosaur, but ah, not Gridlock was just like after the first, uh, there was, like a very first marks. Very first elite turning like the elite invitational, uh, elite eight. Yeah. The elite eight, like a bunch of us, had kind of been on teams that we weren’t. It’s kind of like that one was a little piece together, team wise that there was some established teams. What? There are a lot of us that were just kind of like, Oh, that’d be fun and got together. And then, yeah, shortly after that, uh, me and the Harrell’s it all wanted toe play together and kind of been, Let’s have it right there just was it that was you Say the rails or half a team right there, like you get your that. That was so in the in the big extent that the big, big W D s and L A D s leagues. You have these 20 person teams. And so you know what I had kept in some teams and they had kept on someone was always this like, Oh, we need an extra guy or we need an extra guy and just never worked as far as me playing with them or them playing with me. Uh, and we don’t like a little bit here there, but nothing that serious. Then after that first date, five attorney Yeah, I approached them and was like, Yeah, why don’t we get, like, three? You, me, uh, at the time here, grad key. And like, use that as a core of a team and, like, bring some guys in, uh and yeah, I had a bunch of success right away and really had a blast with it. The jerseys. Uh, I mean, I designed them with with input from the whole group where I was like, what? Should we do this with this? What color should reuse went through a bunch of different names and then I like, I think I don’t remember how gridlock was the one that caught on, but yeah, there was some post. It was like, Yeah, we could be gridlock in her mascot would be grim lock And then either may have even been another pun in it. But it just kind of, ah, took off from there. I found a factory in China that would make us, uh, jerseys high, wanted him with a collar and everything. And then yeah, I mean, so I just stopped playing after five years with him. Ah, I don’t know. A lot of why the collars and I think you guys have, like, arguably the best jersey out there is just so unique, so cool looking. Well, thanks. Uh, what? So you’re I actually started going through other sports? The initial idea that I had was let’s find another, uh, sport that, like, has commercial jerseys for sale. And then, like, essentially like, hey, let’s, like, just let’s be, let’s say we didn’t all know the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, right? So let’s get the Tampa Bay Buccaneers jerseys was put our name on it and that’ll be our dodgeball team. Let’s find, you know, like the Liverpool Gamecocks, we could just get pretty may gain Gamecock jerseys or, you know, like something like that let’s find a team out there for some other sport and then we’ll just get our jerseys made so we don’t have to go through all this like rigmarole of, like, designing and doing all this stuff in looking at that that I started looking at a bunch of different sports that had jerseys and I wanted to find something that was good for dodgeball. Looks up to that point. You have teams playing in like basketball style jerseys or like a lot of ah, lot of T shirts, just things that weren’t great for not getting hit and then still being Ah, I need to be loose enough that you have a lot of movement like kind of baseball style. You want Tobe able to throw and do whatever you want. We also want to be pretty trim. You don’t want to get nicked with anything and eventually ran across rugby jerseys which are set up exactly for that where you don’t want to get tackled but you don’t have football dresses would be perfect except they’re built for ah shoulder pads and you having having all the the gear under it and so rugby jerseys are made to be tight to the body, but then also, uh, loose around the shoulders and then they stylistically and I don’t know, the origins of rugby. Ah, collars that sold. I never went down that rabbit hole, but they off they have a whole bunch of different collars. And so in some of the early designs, I was like, Yeah, we should do rugby jerseys and then showed the collars And the guys really like the collars. Ah, And then we went, we did. We decided to not use an existing rugby. Ah, you know, like team somewhere to just design our own. So when I did that, that’s awesome. Yeah, The rugby’s a classy sport, therefore, being the crap out of each other’s, let me just give it a little bit of respectability. While you’re punching a guy in the mud, it’s all it’s all get if you got a collar. It is totally a gentleman’s sport at that point. So you said you’re retired, but you still play recreation. When we kind of talked about this when we almost had her own like side podcast. I mean, I just I was trying to stave off like getting too fat you know there somewhere, right around 30. There’s like your metabolism just starts going to crap and you can’t eat what you used to and like, you just like change. And I probably became a better dodgeball player in my early thirties that I was around 30 cause it’s they just you’re different and then you get in your mid thirties and late thirties and the injuries start just like really not healing up. And you really I was never one to stay in great condition, and you have to spend a lot more time to even stay in okay condition, and then you around 40. It’s just like every attorney. There’s some new, you know, 20 year old baseball washout starting pitchers. Throw on an 85 ball of your head and you’re slower and dumber and like it. Just get that were just like, You know what? This is still great and I love it, but I’d like to play once a week, Wednesday night and for a couple hours, not eight hours for two hours, and at that I can still play very well and be very competitive and not like Come home, my ground up meat Yeah, He said you want to know how much time you want to spend recovering the rest of the weekend, But I was starting to spend a lot of time recovering and just, like, really having the, uh I have three small kids now. That was one of the big ones where I would just I would come home. I leave on a Saturday in spec. Hayyani watched three kids all day, and then I come home that night and just like, you know, it couldn’t just kind of lay down a lot, do a lot of icing, Uh, a decent amount of painkillers just to kind of, like, continue to be functional. And then the next day, in the next couple days after it, it would be like, No, I can’t pick you up very well, cause my shoulder is garbage like, No, I can’t do this because my back feels really bad. And then it is kind of what? What? What do you Why? Why you doing that? Because you snipe some guy, and yet suva, like, just you know, there’s gotta be some point where it’s like, Well, you’re not gonna play dodgeball forever. Yeah, like that I had a competitive level. So step away when you still feel decent about how you were playing And then, like I said, I can I can play one night a week and get everybody out that I want to and still be sore for a day afterwards. But, like, be functional, right? Yeah. Thought I’d still make every tournament. I’m still real. Said I was looking like it could be doing that, but I just you know, I can’t believe no one like can I can do this or don’t really want to, because you obviously don’t do that for a reason. And it is good to know that you’re still out there plain like that’s ah, without cause. I’m not too far behind you. I’m 34 myself, and I know that I was coming where it’s just gonna be like. This is not fun anymore. This hurts a lot more than it’s supposed to. You’re used to. And Teoh started slide. I gotta sit right around 34. 35. I had, like, a second coming where you get Ah, you get better. You just I mean, there really is just like the years of play. Add up and you don’t. You may physically fall off 10% but you’re 30% smarter kind of thing if that Yeah, those aerial numbers. But you know what I mean? Like it, really? You can become a much more efficient player as long as your body doesn’t just totally fall off a cliff. And so So you’re saying like, you become more deliberate in your actions, your little more Ah, conservative. You’re not throwing every single ball possible. You’re calculating. And you just like I said, all that experience comes the it’s like finally matches your body s suppose. Yeah, well, it just It just becomes like all your plays are high reward, low risk. And so, like, by doing that constantly like it keeps narrowing your little your room for mistakes. But it mean like, just because you are slower, you can’t make the same throw. You can’t overpower people the same way. Yeah, it’s a narrower, narrower thing. You have to hit, but you’re better and better at doing it. Just like you. Your timing is better. You don’t get excited when the games late in it, like it’s actually one of the things I really like. now about playing Wednesday nights right now in L. A. We got a bunch of new 85 players, and it’s just really fun to see them. Yeah, it’ll be like a two on one and you can see they’re young and they’re game suddenly changes that make big, dumb mistakes and kind, like, run around like crazy a little bit. And it makes me remember what it was like. Uh, you know, when I was young and dumb and doing that same sort of thing, it’s just really interesting to see it from an old men’s eyes watching it happen. Yeah, there’s, Ah, clip of us us. I mean, Team evil like back in the day 2006 were planning. That’s the makings of rise of the time. And, you know, there’s a surgeon Tam Jam. Very, very high caliber strategic, great calculating players, right? However, at the time, we all look like a bunch of kids ways going. Yeah, we just look like a complete like I don’t want to cuss, but, you know, a show like it was just bad, and it’s just so funny at the time. Like all this is the best I’ve ever played were at the apex of dodgeball. It’s a serious business is super competitive. And now we’re just like I could take on the entire court by myself, watching these guys play the way they are and insist it’s hysterical. And that was history. Get to relive that when a new person comes on because, like, hi guys gonna get picked off for not looking or he’s gonna get blindsided and I don’t know about you, but like when I when I see that happening, I, like, kind of try to coach them through action, so, like, I’ll see a perfect opportunity to light them up. But I won’t instead of, like, throw a nice lob, so that way they can still be pick up. Hey, I shouldn’t leave myself exposed like this. Or maybe you’re a nicer man than may. Yeah, like I’m gonna get my out, E I just wanna get I just want to knock him off the court. I do. I try to do a bit of like after the game, like, hey, like, I was able to get you there because you’re two balls and threw them both. And then I ran you over. You should throw one and then back up in regroup because you’re stronger and younger than me. Like for a care of things the least I don’t think her easy to pick up. So you tryto passed along. I’m not not here, toe. Just get people out, you know, but ah, yeah, I don’t know if any. I don’t know if any of it, if any of it’s absorbed by anybody, but I try. I’ve had a few players come out to be in the past and like, Oh, man, Steve, thank you for all the advice you’ve ever give me. It’s great. And I learned a lot from you. And, um, that’s always a good feeling. Like Oh, cool. I left Ah, small little mark in a very small little niche world, You know, it was getting like it just ah, you want to pass off something of Well, then I think it feels a little more not not that any of this is a waste of time, but like it does feel good that you like least. I made some impact here with all those hours I put in. Yeah, where you made somebody’s day a little bit better or you made them appreciate the game just a little bit more. Gonna share that passion with them. So going back to like leaving your mark on, you know, the younger, newer players. What advice would you give them? Like somebody that’s brand new. Uh, he shows up to open gym, got rocked, got lit up, but is one of those rare few people that wants to come back. What would you What advice would you give them? If, if any, I can tell you exactly what I usually do is that I’ve played long enough so that I’ve seen people of just about every skill set be good in one way or another. So, you know, if someone shows up in there like an ex, ah, their next shortstop and you can see it real fast, you know what I mean? But they’re throwing her hard, but they’re delivering everything right into the person’s bread basket because that’s where all their muscle memory is is trying to hit someone from that distance about there. It’s getting into that like, Oh, hey, like you throw hard enough, you don’t need to be up that far or like hey, after you throw, Try to stay squared up or like if it’s a tall guy, you do a lot of like, Well, you need to watch your feet cause there’s the whole thing where it’s like as you’ve been down your knees go out So everyone’s gonna throw below your knees. You need to work on being able to move your feet around without bending over and like just those like physical things that are a nice shortcut, you know, like into the game. Uh, because I think it’s really hard, like unless there people that come up with with all the skills and then it’s really just like, Hey, like, keep your head on a swivel like just you know you’ll pick it up because the physical side I’ll get you there I’m always more worried about you. See people with kind of the just like a little Now that’s a bad thing. I think it’s It’s 99% of us, just like a limited skill set, and that could be very frustrating where you show up on your good at throwing, but you throw once in or out game after game after game where you should be good in arms is just giving that little that little like hey, like, don’t throw from the middle because you’re you When you throw, you used to be ah, picture. So you’re rolling your whole shoulder over which I assume means half the court can like underhand Lob a ball in your leg If you’re gonna throw, pick one side, throw it people near you and then do it like a wide receiver. Wide receiver Shuffle back. Get your hands up when you can, you know, Just like those little physical things Let them stay on the court a little more Ah, and keep an eye on what’s going on because I think you’re right. Like you can be so frustrating and you see people that show up, that should be good and they’re really bad and then they don’t It doesn’t come together. And you see you like that, guys never coming back. That’s the worst from you know, when I ran to Sunday as well as a league, um, you need people to come back. So it’s like I had more incentive to try to coach people and try to get them to come back. And, you know, talk about strategy and just how you can stay alive just a little bit longer. And it’s the worst to see somebody get really excited at first and then transition to I’m never going back. This is rough or I don’t like it. Didn’t have fun. That just sucks. Yeah, I mean, the time that reminds me of the most So 85 is what we started on in l. A played it for years. Got upto like multiple 85 locations at one point even and then after pinch was introduced Ah, the ceiling for how well people are playing just took off to this degree that new people would show up, they’d get hit by one. And we had a lot of like real serious pinch players of that plan. They get hit by one of those right are you could just see it in their face like that. There was they didn’t show up the box, you know, And that’s what was happening to speak. People really hit for Riel. Ah, and it just in a just a tour of leagues apart. That’s where stay puff came out of all that because you needed an alternative for people that wanted to play without having their fingers will shoot up and without having to worry about their retinas all the time. Uh, we’re just It created such a high level for entry that I mean, it really killed it off. I mean, for a while, Wds was doing 85 leagues and it be three teams of five and barely could feet field that. You know, it was like that for a couple of years until Mark started doing the elite stuff again. 85 was It’s really on life support, just kind of a little group of us that always played. But, you know, there’d be 15 stay puff leagues with 20 personal, you know, with 10 20 person teams in each of them and then 185 league that was barely going, did you? Ah, might be a bit of a stretch. So back in September of 2007 we had our first like, independent dodgeball tournament in Tucson, and it was at the indoor roller hockey rink. Okay, it was 8. 5 and a team called lads. Well, l a dodgeball society came down, and it was, um, Costanza. And I think Randa Randy Duran? Yeah, around Amanda Man and Ah, yeah. Were you part of that posse by chance? So I came out on some early trips. I’m not the one. The one I remember. Arizona was probably a little bit after that. It was, uh it was one where they were, like to Arizona groups having attorney on the same day. And we went to the wrong one. Went to the one that, like Sam was running. No, man, it was just us in a couple teams. And then later we ran into someone there. Oh, yeah. This attorney with, like, 12 teams at this other place. Ah. What I would say is I went to a lot of I traveled to a lot attorneys with Costanza and a lot of them with random an But unless you have more details than that from that one, I’m not sure it was called the Coed Naked Dodgeball tournament. Uh, 600 cash prize. But you would know, like the indoor roller hockey rink you would know that is similar to like the one that one dude hosted. I thinking like Virginia like the first light 10. Count them and I was off for that one. Yeah, and I just twenties. I saw I was looking up Clips of that Look, I’m dressed up. I have, like, a Mohawk man, you look so different in this. Crazy was like, Holy crap. That’s That’s Eric. Oh, yeah. I’ve got, like, a black eye from a street fight from when you’re out carousing like I was not fighting, I just got punched, but yeah, I mean, it was a It was fine. I watched that the other day. I found a link to it. Ah, hold list of, like, dodgeball wings for clips. And yet it’s crazy. Just like me and a wife beater with a mohawk and a beard. And I’m It’s weird. I look like I’m moving around the same, but yes, it’s Well, obviously I’m young. It was It was very weird to watch s so funny watching a younger version yourself what you like. What are you doing? Just I was throwing real hard. I like that a lot, but, uh, yes, that was a fun attorney. I wish I could remember. And it’s funny. I mean, you say like, Oh, it was that indoor hockey one man, I’ve played on every hockey arenas and tailoring. You know, like ST Floor, the Staples Center parking lot outside the Staples Center garage like underground parking Rogers and, uh, most Gatto’s in a muddy field outside of a school in Malaysia. Like all of them e I’ve played in all of them. So unfortunately, I don’t remember it from just that, Uh, I I feel like I would You ever animals was your Who else was with the group, by any chance? Um, I don’t and that that’s the thing. It’s It wasn’t, um and it’s no offensive, these people at all. But the only people I remember were like I said, Randa and, um, Costanza, the other guys, I don’t think I’ve seen in MDL definitely not elite. Um, there’s a video, though, of like it highlights from a tournament. And it’s a really good video with, um, freaking was it called Welcome to the Jungle. And then YouTube’s like not you can do that. So put like this lame stock music, but the footage is there, and I could weaken Message that to you? Yes, I guess, Ah, I mean, we could go on forever about I’ll close with that kind of Ah, say quit to this last question. Sure. What is your best dodgeball tournament slash experience. Like what was the one that I mean, I’m sure Count was do. But what would stand out the most? Like you’re like, This is the best dodgeball experience ever. Like the pinnacle. Oh, uh, what comes close? I guess that’s how I mean, I think that it’s a little into Ah, like, what are the why you’re out playing? Because I couldn’t tell you how many attorneys I went in with a good team. We won the tournament. We got some chintzy prices or not at all. I got a free drink at the bar and then left. Like those air. I don’t know. I guess I had enough of those that none that I mean, some of those stand out. I guess what I’m saying. But I don’t know if they’d be like the most interesting. Ah, I don’t know. I mean, some of the most unique ones were when I’ve I traveled, I guess. I mean, we had that I went for one of the team U S. A trips where we played in. And I guess this is a good mix of We won, which was great. But also it was such a cool like experience where we went toe Hong Kong and we played ah in their local league, like their All star team versus are traveling team. There was like a mix of U S A and Canadian players and we wind. It was like a new ball that we didn’t know that well, but they headed in this indoor GM like the rules were different. They’re shagging was different and they were good In the first half. We went down. You’re probably like 10 to 2. It was we was getting blown out, switch over and then one all the way back so that with, like, you know, 30 seconds left, we’re tied 12 12 or something like that. I remember the exact numbers we got tied up like that. Ah, I had a couple good plays and I had my head have been have shoulder problems and that’s what was kind of inaccurate. But a couple of good plays back to back, which was really nice. And then we did win the game toe like, you know, So we won. We got our little medals, but then it was this, like afterwards blew it to a bar with him and we hadn’t really known anyone. And it was one of these words like, Oh, yeah, it’s not like Hong Kong is the most alien place on Earth, but it was very rich, like, Oh, it’s the same dodgeball conversations, the same dodgeball people overseas And then one of the coolest things ever seen Everyone is like, Oh, when are the stats getting in? And I was like, What are you talking about in there? So the games are all taped and right after the games are over, they get sent to this person. They just pay Teoh, accumulate all the stats and, like a couple hours after the game, they all get posted. So you know how many like hits you have? It catches you have and like, that’s cool win percentage when you’re on the court, like all this crazy stuff where it also opened my eyes a little bit, where is like, Oh, hey, like what we’re doing in L. A in the U. S. Can be and has been surpassed, you know, it was a little bit of like, Oh, this is like us, and there was a little bit of like it. Just open eyes does like how much future there could be. And it was like super in range, like it did not have to be. This, like barnstorming, ticky tack like comedy thing that there are already people taking it seriously. And you could travel and go see him and and have a fun time with them. You know? That’s cool. Yeah, the, um you’re right. It’s It’s always tournament and then after party, same people. And it does nothing wrong with that. Not bashing that experience at all. Definitely got its own value. But some of that, like, really stand out. So, like the Salt Lake tournament, for example? Yeah. Mason behind the back. Okay, cool. That else is new, but like watching somebody else like relive that experience. That was great stats. That is mad. I’d be really cool to see and just kind of having an idea of what that would look like. Even now, like that’s That’s an element that you could bring in. That’s not new. That’s our. This not like groundbreaking is going to cost a lot of money. It’s something that could be not too far from the future. Like you said, it’s within reach. Yeah, it was on one thing. I forgot even and they had refs that were just paid refs where they were like, Yeah, so in Hong Kong, it’s largely Ah, Indonesians are kind of the the immigrant worker there, right? Look for here would be people from Central America, right? And they were just like, Yeah, we just found some people, you know, They were basically day labor type, like, you know, like, basically like, nice, honest people. They don’t know anything about dodgeball. We brought him out, we started paying them to be refs. You said the payment hourly came to your office after a couple months. They’re really good refs. They don’t play dodge balls, they never play favorites. They’re just really good refs. They’re brought out. They left. All their games were super good at it. They took no lip. It was just one of these. Were, like again, where is like, Oh, that’s super attainable. We could be doing that tomorrow. That’s the future. That’s when the real sports Dio Ah, I don’t know. Very journey time and then boom done done. Deal. Cool Well, I mean, I would say, Ah, maybe the next 5 10 years? Hopefully, we’ll at least get to that point. Maybe sooner. Maybe this conversation might nudge some people never know. Um, yeah. I think some of the the drama with all these organizational entities needs to get ah figured out and best elect everybody, but right. Yeah. Now we’re in a field Japan, and everybody’s trying to be sugen. Still, after the last 10 years of the same same thing. Yeah, and I’m happy to just anyone that wants help on just doing things that are good. Good for the game. I help out. But all of the who’s figuring what out? Uh, I hope it gets organized because I think that’s what it needs for. Everyone has got these dreams about the dodgeball being international and being in the Olympics and being bigger, that’s gotta get settled first. And then I don’t think I’ll start moving forward for sure. No, Cool man. Well, thanks for joining with me. I mean, this is been pretty cool. I got to relive some things, and that’s the whole point. Is just trying to capture a lot of memories that I think a lot of people that are relatively new even within 56 years still don’t know what life is like. Pre MDL pre. I know it’s Yeah. I was trying to explain the barn, storming to someone the other day, and I was hard. How did you find out about attorneys? And I was just like, I don’t It was like, you know, pre Facebook where? Just like I don’t even remember it or is Someone would just say they’ve heard about a tournament. We’d go there, you know, You go there and you just hope that you could turn out. You know, that still, actually, that day. And then we’re going to maybe, like, what kind of balls is that? You just shop you like, Oh, what are these? Something sort of volleyball thing you got, right? Well, whatever you have to do this Yeah, and that we’re diagramming plays on the computer and sharing with everybody. Yeah, for better for worse, it’s ah, it’s come a long way and still has a lot further to go. But I just I was able to be a part of it and still kind of am and hoping that this podcast can kind of help. I always say, bring appreciation for where it is. But it’s ah, system. Definitely a good way to look at things, um, and maybe learn some stuff in the past and what not, but yeah, yeah, it’s Ah. I went to the, um, the Hall of Fame at the Football Hall of Fame in Atlanta, and I’m going through all these archives. And it was, um it was a spur of the moment thing to like. It wasn’t even like we’re playing. We’re just in Atlanta is free to military members. So, like cool or not. And just seeing the changes in uniform hearing the unit, the interviews seem like eso. Once it was like suit that he wore. And it really reminded me of, like the good old, like the good old barnstorming days. It reminded me of like how how far we’ve come. But how far we still have yet to go because we’re still in a lot of those phases where you have even the NFL head in fighting, they had organizations could find for, like, the ultimate seat, and so for me, it would be great to be able to record a lot of conversations and build a timeline to kind of slowly start putting that in place. But if and when the dodgeball world does wake up and move forward, we still have something that we were a part of. So very like, League of their own into the movie type Phil is what I’m going for. Yeah, yeah, I think it’s a really neat idea, I think. And I and I agree because I keep, like, well, to get together so I can get you some of them. I’ve got like, yeah, weird clips from you, Like I have, like, a full set of extreme dodgeball. Season three, for example, Six sitting on a drive somewhere like I’ve got a bunch of old, weird clips of dodgeball I’m sure to stanza has, uh, more than ideo, but like, but that kind of stuff, Yeah, it’s just going to start getting lost. I don’t know. I mean, cause I think there are people that would, ah, like this, see and hear this stuff. But it’s gonna be like you’re saying harder and harder, starting to fade away. Yeah, it’s got start somewhere, and hopefully this is just a small contribution to what will get people like Oh, yeah, I know. I’ve got footage from my high eight Sony cam off of us point dodgeball at the U of A. Or, you know, I’ve got the old flyer from the indie l 2005 Dodgeball World Championship Convention or got food and check out this. You see, the Thinker, You know, it’s it’s all out there. So I would just like to start consolidating it and get into one, maybe central location, but just have it acknowledged and to see where it goes. But, uh, you know what I just found? Ah, about two weeks ago, I was cleaning out my dodge ball bag. My very nice, uh, core patch that you gave me at that Utah trace. If you remember that, of course. Deere Dr. Court patches. That is a staple of Tucson of team evil of Steve like That’s just man. It was tucked in one of my pouches there I had set aside to like, Iron Honor. So on at some point, just been in there and pulled out the guy. I’ve put it back in, but, you know, I was very happy to have it. They will come out of the day. And that’s great. I love seeing. I’ll still see people like wearing this stuff on the wrist bands and, like all yeah, it s so cool. Definitely awesome. N well again. Did appreciate time and e un po. I have to do this again at some point. You do, like apart to get fresh with anything you need to follow up wise or anything I can do to help. I’m happy, too. Awesome. And if you have any ideas for me as well, especially as we like, release an episode and what not just let me know. I’m down for suggestions and and feedback and all the like, so Okay, sounds good. But I did well, Have a good night. No, I’ll talk to you, seeing you to do some thinking, man. So that was Eric Bread Truck Tillman’s. And what a joy that was for me personally, to relive much the pre you to see pretty elites, even some of the pre MDL good old barnstorming days of dodgeball. You can imagine a world without Facebook. Maybe even without my space. That’s that’s more or less where dodgeball came from. Um, and where they’re new to the sport or have been around for a while. Um, it’s just come a long way, period. Even from the last two years. Dodgeball is definitely I feel on the right track when I look back at some, huh? Some of the harder struggles that we went through just to get to a tournament. And I come back from a three division tournament in L. A. Where we have people coming in all the way from Minnesota to come play. It really does strike the gratitude to cords there, Teoh. Just sit back and appreciate all that’s that’s come and gone within the last 10 to 12 years of us plane anyway. So in conclusion, I hope this gave you a good taste of what’s to come. If you have any questions, any feedback, I am open to it. If you’d like to be on the podcast, I’d be more than happy to sit down and chat with you for I don’t know, 30 45 minutes an hour, however long it takes. If you love Dodge ball as much as I do, we can talk all day. Um, so that being said until next time, this is Steve out line. Sorry, Nick. Tried it. Get through this. Make this as painless possible for the both of us.